To Flake Or To Coil, That Is The Question

I flake the rope into the bag. I say it is less likely to tangle as it is pulled out by the leader, and less likely to tangle when the bag is burrito-rolled up and banged around.

FLAKE ROPE IN BAG

My partner coils the rope into the bag. He says it's no more likely to tangle under any circumstances.
COIL ROPE IN BAG

Who is right?

I personally am a fan of stacking rather than coiling. But I cannot say that I know one is better than the other.

In relation to this. Does anyone flake from the middle out? Or is it always end to end? I do end to end but I had the thought the other day.

I would imagine coiling in the bag would be likely to introduce twists into the rope.

if you do it in a coil you have to reverse the direction on each loop or else the rope will spiral. also in a regular coil it can catch another coil and create an overhand knot. i just flake it in a pile so much easier

Flake. Coiling into a rope bag is nonsense and a waste of time.

flake it in, coiling is for when you don't have a rope bag

BUT

the real question is:

Why don't you have a double overhand stopper knot in the bottom end of the rope?

I've done both in my rope bag. I find that neither method creates more kinks than the other so long as the tarp is wrapped tightly, and that the rope has already been sufficiently de-kinked prior to packing. If the rope already has kinks in it, nothing helps aside from a good de-kinking.

With regards to coiling from end-to-end vs from the middle/ends, I think it depends on what you intend to do with the rope next. I find myself extremely frustrated when I need to lead with a rope or thread the rope (such as when I set up a top rope by feeding the rope through the masterpoint carabiners) and the rope is coiled from the middle/ends, since the rope ends are now hopelessly twisted around each other. Of course, that always happens when someone else coiled the rope, so I wonder if it's just me. I find myself only a tad annoyed when I need the middle of a rope and the rope is coiled end-to-end, but hate having to milk a full length rope to find the middle, particularly when (as are the ropes at work) there is no middle marker on the rope. That said, coiling a rope from the middle/ends is about 2x faster than coiling it from end-to-end, so YMMV.

Flake it if you have a tarp/bag, otherwise butterfly it. Coiling typically introduces 40+ twists into the rope. Handled properly, these will come out when the rope is used next, but if it's not handled just right, you've screwed it up. I never let anyone circular coil my ropes. Never.

Having the rope flaked and ready to go is basically the whole point of a tarp-style rope bag. If you're going to coil it, a butterfly coil better prevents tangled and kinks.

I have never had a flaked rope knot itself off the tarp. When done with the rope, I flake it, burrito wrap the tarp, and head off on my merry way. When it is time to climb, I unroll it, grab the top end, tie in and head off climbing.

csproul wrote:Flake. Coiling into a rope bag is nonsense and a waste of time.

To quote John Wilder: "+1"

eli poss wrote: BUT the real question is: Why don't you have a double overhand stopper knot in the bottom end of the rope?

In both pics the end is tied to the bag. Should stop it going through the device.

eli poss wrote:BUT the real question is: Why don't you have a double overhand stopper knot in the bottom end of the rope?

First, it's tied to the tarp. Second, there's a lot of info we don't know from that pic - the big double overhand isn't always necessary - eg: a 20m pitch with a 70m rope and nothing weird about the starting area.

Parker Wrozek wrote: In both pics the end is tied to the bag. Should stop it going through the device.

I don't have a lot of confidence in a loosely tie overhand, while a double overhand is much more secure and will jam in any device unless you're using super skinny ropes. I've seen single overhand knots come untied under loading. You may not need it on every climb but if you're tying a knot to the bag anyway, I don't see a reason not to tie a double overhand. It has saved my ass on an old 2 pitch route linked into 1 pitch at T-wall.

beaujean wrote:I flake the rope into the bag. I say it is less likely to tangle as it is pulled out by the leader, and less likely to tangle when the bag is burrito-rolled up and banged around. My partner coils the rope into the bag. He says it's no more likely to tangle under any circumstances. Who is right?

I would call your method stacking, not flaking, based on my understanding of nautical terminology. Your partner's method is flaking in a coil.

To me, flaking is laying out on the deck in an ordered fashion, and stacking is piling the rope from bottom to top.

Sometimes I flake, sometimes I stack. Just depends on the situation. When I flake, I rarely do it in a circular, coil-like fashion. Just back and forth.

animatedknots.com/terminolo…

animatedknots.com/flemish/#…

animatedknots.com/fig8flake…

Ben Stabley wrote:I would imagine coiling in the bag would be likely to introduce twists into the rope.

Technically if you know how to coil in/out you can coil and resist the twisting effect. It's how we coil cables working television. Though might not be as effective in a supple rope.

On topic. I just flake and stuff. I'll only coil when I'm not carrying a rope bag.

Absolutely not.