Chipping Ethics

So I've seen this term on a few MP entries, mainly boulder problems, but I just figured out what it means and I'm kind of horrified. Scarring the rock for safety purposes is one thing (and controversial in of itself), but artificially chipping yourself a hold, or (worse) gluing a hold on because you can't send it as it is? This just seems to defeat the purpose of outdoor climbing in the first place. Am I being a crodgedy old tradster on this? What are your thoughts on chipping? Are there ethos within the chipping community - e.g. chipping is acceptable if you are the route developer, but it's not cool if you do It to someone else's problem? Should chippers be tarred, feathered, and tossed off of El Cap without a parachute?

There are no ethics; it's just vandalism.

I'd respond but instead, I'll just review the millions of threads about this exact topic on every single message board that talks about climbing in the slightest on the entire web.

Chipping= never acceptable
Gluing holds= I see no harm merely preservation of a route, their are a fair few local problems where where big hold and broken off and has been glued back on.

I figure the person that took the time to put the route up can make the route his or her own. If he or she feels that the route would be better chipped or glued, go for it. The rock is already being "chipped" anyway by putting in bolts/anchors.

KKFA wrote:I figure the person that took the time to put the route up can make the route his or her own.

It's not an art project, it's a public resource and while the fixing of gear does mar the rock it doesn't give anyone a right to chip holds. Flat out it's a completely douche thing to do.

I like chips, jalepeno kettles rock!

This is a question already answered, answered years ago when the basic ethics of rock climbing in the US where established. Chipping / changing holds today steals from tomorrow. We are not receiving from the past but borrowing from the future. If those that came before us embraced a limited future they may have chipped the shit out of your proudest send. Chipping / gluing are the actions of a limited and short sighted mind ignorant of history.

You may not want to go to Europe to sport climb, or riggins idaho, or american fork. Or golden touch at the red. I could go on but I think you get my point. Chipping is like listening to nickelback. It is wrong but more people do it and enjoy the after effects than you would think.

Mike Womack wrote: Gluing additional holds that weren't there in the first place AND chipping out holds WAS ethical back in the day (70s?, 80s?).

Say what?

Nothing guilty about Wham. RIP George Michael!!!

Mike Womack wrote:Gluing holds instead of ripping them off of their natural placement is OK in a lot of areas today. However, Gluing additional holds that weren't there in the first place AND chipping out holds WAS ethical back in the day (70s?, 80s?).

Absolutely, totally false. It was NEVER ethical. Just because some asswipes did it doesn't make it correct.

Chipping is totally legit and will even make you an untouchable hero as long as it is done while putting up an aid climb. Pitons just a wee bit too big for the crack work nicely. let it get beat out aid climbing for a few years and then bag the FFA.. more rock star power... Chipping is also completely legit and will make you a total rock star if you simply wear fruit boots and use ice tools.

Climbing is completly full up to it's eyeballs with hipocracy and bullshit.....

BTW I don't like chipping but I am fully aware that it gets done quite often by the heros that you guys worship...

Tim Lutz wrote: LOL! I have Wham! as a guilty pleasure but hey guys! I'm not gay/a chipper

Exactly what a gay chipper would say......

Mike Womack wrote:However, Gluing additional holds that weren't there in the first place AND chipping out holds WAS ethical back in the day (70s?, 80s?).

It wasn't ever ethical, especially in the 70s. In the 80's, with the advent of sport climbing, all kinds of this sort of shit broke out for awhile but was roundly criticized and cleaned up at the time.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:Pitons just a wee bit too big for the crack work nicely. let it get beat out aid climbing for a few years and then bag the FFA.. more rock star power

This was simply a result of the times and changing of techniques, was not done to create free climbing holds and has nothing to do with the topic of deliberately chipping or cutting holds.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:Chipping is totally legit and will even make you an untouchable hero as long as it is done while putting up an aid climb. Pitons just a wee bit too big for the crack work nicely. let it get beat out aid climbing for a few years and then bag the FFA.. more rock star power... Chipping is also completely legit and will make you a total rock star if you simply wear fruit boots and use ice tools. Climbing is completly full up to it's eyeballs with hipocracy and bullshit.....

Yes!
This probably pisses me off more than almost anything else in climbing..
Old tradsters love to diss on chipping as the devil but refuse to admit that nailing is 100% A form of chipping.

Micah Klesick wrote:Old tradsters love to diss on chipping as the devil but refuse to admit that nailing is 100% A form of chipping.

Uh,again, no it wasn't, it was just an unfortunate side-effect of the climbing tech of the time - no one was driving and pulling pins to create free climbing holds.

Healyje wrote: It wasn't ever ethical, especially in the 70s. In the 80's, with the advent of sport climbing, all kinds of this sort of shit broke out for awhile but was roundly criticized and cleaned up at the time. This was simply a result of the times and changing of techniques, was not done to create free climbing holds and has nothing to do with the topic of deliberately chipping or cutting holds.

Huh. I am not arguing with you about the ethics of chipping. I am just not so sure about this whole cleaned up in the 70's and 80's talk

shotgunnelson wrote: Huh. I am not arguing with you about the ethics of chipping. I am just not so sure about this whole cleaned up in the 70's and 80's talk

Were you around and climbing through that period? Again, a lot of this shit broke out in the first half of the 80's and while you can't do much about fixing chipped holds, the bolted-on ones all came down pretty fast and the chippers were socially beat down pretty well at the time. That's not to say some didn't do significant damage in more isolated areas around the country.

T Roper wrote:I like chips, jalepeno kettles rock!

Crush them up and use them as breading on fish. Delicious.