60' Ground fall belayer drop

climbing.com/news/unbelayva…

As much as we love to obsess over Grigri failure stories, the truth is that this is much more common (and likely). As Aleks would say: the Deadly ATC. Still pretty incredible that the belayer just flat out dropped her, rock fall or no, and quite clearly user error, but still something that could have been avoided with a Grigri.

"My helmet may have saved my life." Good call putting a lid on your brain.

Not sure if the use of the word 'belayer' in the title of this thread is quite right.

Healyje wrote:Not sure if the use of the word 'belayer' in the title of this thread is quite right.

"active observer" maybe? lol

Yeah, not enough belaying was going on to warrant getting into a discussion of devices.

The discussion should be about taking caution with partners you don't know not belay devices.

I still remember going on an internet blind date and the guy dismissively saying "It wouldn't be there if it wasn't safe!". He was referring to the rap station at the top of Chouinard's Right. It was one piece of ratty and sun baked cord.

I'm callin BS on 60'
Said "just started leading trad in spring...
Climbed 60' of a 5.8 crack with 5 pieces of gear"

I bet it was a max of 30-35' up.

This discussion is still about defending devices from the 1950s.I evaluate my partners all the time. If they use an ATC they're not very well-versed at sport climbing and are not to be trusted. I also evaluate people I'm driving with, and if they cut the seatbelts out of their car to make it more exciting and keep you paying attention I tend to not ride with them either.Cue Haley's weird video of a hip belay from the 1980s

jleining wrote:I'm callin BS on 60' Said "just started leading trad in spring... Climbed 60' of a 5.8 crack with 5 pieces of gear" I bet it was a max of 30-35' up.

Quick flip through the area shows that there's plenty of routes high enough and in the grade range to fit...

mountainproject.com/v/quant…

A bit runout, yeah. Especially down low. But if they're confident on 'casual' terrain, not unheard of by any means.

I bet people will take issue with the part where Corrigan insists that everyone use a Gri or similar.

"Starbuck Cliff. It used to be an ice climbing area, "
Until the uninformed choose to call it a moderate easy access rock climbing zone.
Look at the pictures that sort of ice, means the rock is under a constant destabilizing pressure.
effected by the freeze / thaw cycle in a way that produces changing soundness / quality.
Out doors is not the gym,
Sounds like a pile of garbage rock.
Don't climb on chossy cliffs where ice forms,
Especially with no concept of what one is doing.

I have only ripped the one quote, there were at least three other glaring things.
Like dropping or throwing, the " bomber hold" at the misplaced belayer.

Belayers should be at the base of the climb, in close. So if some thing comes down it falls away from not at the belay.

Standing and stepping back into the line of fire helmet or not is asking to get hit.

I don't know what 8820 joules of energy feels like but sounds like a lot. I guessed at height and weight for the calculation and no friction from rope being in ATC.

angio.net/personal/climb/sp…

I guess that means is should be 8820 J/m

it probably feels like a typical night at the cheesecake factory.

J Q wrote:This discussion is still about defending devices from the 1950s.

There were no belay devices in the 1950s.

And people reliably belayed with no device at all...

Blakevan wrote:I don't know what 8820 joules of energy feels like but sounds like a lot.

Get a 1 ton weight and drop it onto something from 1 meter high. Ask whatever you dropped it on how it feels, and that's roughly your answer.

To add to what Mark said, munters, sticht plates, figure 8's, and hip belays were still common in the 80's and early 90's. The GriGri was released in 1991.

J Q wrote: If they use an ATC they're not very well-versed at sport climbing and are not to be trusted.

I have a partner who uses an ATC all the time and he climbs 5.13 sport. He doesent want to pay $100 for a Gri, so he uses a $20 ATC. I use the ATC on occasion if I forgot which shoe I put my GriGri in and I'm too lazy to go looking for it. I know of several other examples of experienced climbers who use the ATC on a regular basis. The device is far less important than the person using it. You can catch pretty much any single-pitch fall on any belay device.

Technically the term "belayer" should be substituted with something like "a person had been pretending to be belayer".

I find articles that use the words "natural instincts took over" mildly amusing. Find a partner without natural instincts.

rging wrote:I find articles that use the words "natural instincts took over" mildly amusing. Find a partner without natural instincts.

That is the part of the story that is unclear. If he threw a rock at his belayer's head and the belayer was knocked out, same outcome. Are we supposed to find fault with the belayer here?

If someone through a rock at my head from 50 feet away I would take a step to the left.