Rappel safety: anchoring in

I recall that there was a fatality reported in Accidents in North American Mountaineering because someone was clipped to an anchor via a gear loop. The gear loop ripped and the climber fell. The OP is right to be concerned that he did this!

Chris Richards wrote:I have a question to add here. Do people normally set up an anchor (think cordolett) at each set of bolts to clip into when doing multi-pitch rappelling? Or just clip into one or more bolts directly at the rap anchor? Ive seen it and done it both ways. But building an anchor across a pair of bolts and clipping into that seems safer.

For me I always use a PAS that is girth hitched to go direct to one bolt with a locker and use a long runner as a backup to the other bolt. I agree with the OP that consistency is the key to safety.

Russ Keane wrote:Not a deadly mistake though. That gear loop would be fine if you had slipped or lost your balance at the anchor. You could even weight it, if need be,... I think.

Please delete this, or at least edit to clarify that this IS a deadly mistake. Lots of new climbers apply things they read here. Perhaps you should reconsider posting comments with blatantly incorrect information because you "think" something is not a deadly mistake, despite many examples of it being one.

Russ Keane wrote:It would be unlikely to tear off-- Plus it's better than not being clipped in at all.

You aren't going to succeed in this line of logic. Best to edit or remove your posts on this topic and think it over.

Chris Richards wrote:I have a question to add here. Do people normally set up an anchor (think cordolett) at each set of bolts to clip into when doing multi-pitch rappelling? Or just clip into one or more bolts directly at the rap anchor? Ive seen it and done it both ways. But building an anchor across a pair of bolts and clipping into that seems safer.

Ive personally never run across anyone building an anchor just for rapping. maybe it'd be useful in larger parties, but usually unnecessary.

I clip my PAS (girthed into tie ins) into one bolt and use an alpine draw into another bolt and whatever loop on my PAS is most comfortable (No, i don't typically use lockers on the alpine). When my partner comes down, theres typically plenty of room for him to do the same thing as we pull up the rope and prepare for another rap.

Jake Jones wrote: That could work. Depends on your nips though.

So I should rely on the structural integrity of my nips and NOT my gear loops? Ouch!!! I think I'll use me BELAY LOOP instead. What a revelation!

Jake Jones wrote: I'm here to help.

Thanks Bro! You saved me a trip to the nearest doc-in-a-box.

I'm just here to get on the Russ Keene shame train but good on you OP for getting a discussion going on safety and complacency.

JRZane wrote: Ive personally never run across anyone building an anchor just for rapping.

I've done it. Well, ok, I'll generally have a pre-tied over-hand knot in a sling master-point setup that I've used on the way up. On the way down, I just clip it into the two bolts of the rap anchor, then clip into it. I like being on two bolts at all times, and this makes it quick and easy. Also, more options for two to (more) comfortably share the anchor.

Kyle, yes the article I posted was about girth hitching spectra, but have you taken significant leader falls on gear? Would you fall on a rope, cam, or small nut that was only "half strength?" In response to your comment, no I don't plan on jumping off my anchor, but the point I'm trying to make is; we are taking about the buying the farm here. If that 1 piece of tiny spectra fails, its game over. I personally would NOT employ any gear that was "half rated" no freaking way, period. BTW I think the discussion on this thread is great and informative, unlike alot of the tirades I see on MP.

Armin wrote: Would you fall on a rope, cam, or small nut that was only "half strength?"

Half strength of a sling is about the same as full strength for a nut or cam, so....

This is the problem with percentages...

The real question you need to ask is how much strength do I need? A girth hitched Sterling Chain Reactor has a listed strength of 12.5kN. It's been tested to be able to handle up to 3 FF2 falls.

In a slip situation from a rappel stance, you wont be anywhere near that load, even with a static dyneema sling. As always, don't FF2 onto dyneema.

However, usually de-rating from knots is significantly due to bend radius. I would hypothesize that a sling girthed to a harness tie in wouldn't be as bad as the situation you linked.

Brian L. wrote: Half strength of a sling is about the same as full strength for a nut or cam, so.... This is the problem with percentages... The real question you need to ask is how much strength do I need? A girth hitched Sterling Chain Reactor has a listed strength of 12.5kN. It's been tested to be able to handle up to 3 FF2 falls. In a slip situation from a rappel stance, you wont be anywhere near that load, even with a static dyneema sling. As always, don't FF2 onto dyneema. However, usually de-rating from knots is significantly due to bend radius. I would hypothesize that a sling girthed to a harness tie in wouldn't be as bad as the situation you linked.

+1. Also thanks to the OP for posting and +1 to Russ deleting is death advice. Hopefully someone really wondering doesn't read his post and stop.

For the record I've done hundreds of raps/cleans/etc with a girth hitched PAS to my tie in loops and I'm still here to add my $.02. Hell I even have the Alpine version of the Metolious PAS (14 vs 22 kn) and it holds. I think the biggest take away is what the OP was saying to begin with. Also when I'm doing long gear intensive routes I have found that I can clip the shortest loop of the PAS to my leg loop to save a carabiner on my gear loops and it does not impede. In fact I don't know it's there just a little small things tip I've found works for me.

Armin wrote:Kyle, yes the article I posted was about girth hitching spectra, but have you taken significant leader falls on gear? Would you fall on a rope, cam, or small nut that was only "half strength?" In response to your comment, no I don't plan on jumping off my anchor, but the point I'm trying to make is; we are taking about the buying the farm here. If that 1 piece of tiny spectra fails, its game over. I personally would NOT employ any gear that was "half rated" no freaking way, period. BTW I think the discussion on this thread is great and informative, unlike alot of the tirades I see on MP.

The safety of a girth hitched sling on a belay loop greatly exceeds that of a carabiner that can open (greatly reducing strength), come unclipped or be cross loaded.

All tied connections (done properly) are inherently more reliable than those that can be conveniently disconnected in this application that has loads that are minimal.

It takes a couple of pounds (or less) to open a carabiner and they are not remotely safe at that time etc.

A girth hitch for this application is the safest single connection to make. Used for simple connection to the belay loop it's failure rate is going to be lower than anything in the system provided it is not worn etc. Ideally it is doubled (principal of redundancy).

Meanwhile in Russia...

youtu.be/DGqQjpbGAJM

Guys, the answer is simple: just get a freaking sewn nylon sling. While I agree that a knotted, girth hitched dyneema sling is still plenty strong, I have yet to hear a valid argument against using a sewn nylon sling. It is more dynamic so you're not quite as screwed if you do something stupid like fall on it and a double length is about $5.

The method that I've turned to since I carry at least one 6 foot runner for anchors is to pass one end of the runner through my belay loop, pull the ends even, and tie an overhand near the belay loop. I'm left with two legs to clip to anchors if needed (usually just clip both on one biner to the anchor). Simple, redundant, safe, and provides more length than a shoulder length sling.

But yea, that gear loop comment is total crap.

( fallpro.com/fall-protection…)

Lets put the BD article into perspective. The weakest dyneema (6mm) failed after two tests and it still took 9 kN. So to break the smallest dyneema sling, you'd have to generate forces that are far greater than what is typically seen in a bad lead fall. This would also probably lead to severe injury for you. You'd have to do this more than once, which would be tough given that you might be paralyzed after the first fall. Is nylon better? Probably. Is tying in with the rope the best option if you think you may experience a 9kN+ fall at your belay? Obviously.

Are you gonna die... meh

• You are going to die if you girth hitch your gear loops

JRZane wrote: Ive personally never run across anyone building an anchor just for rapping.

If you have to retreat from a "pure" trad climb (i.e. one that hasn't been semi-sportified with all its belay stances bolted, you'll have to build your own rap anchors. There is still a vast collection of such climbs in the back-country, but climbs don't have to be remote to still be in an unaltered state.

I've never read anything that has shown that a real body (or, more properly for testing, an anatomically accurate mannequin, but not a steel weight) falling on a tether, even a factor 2 fall with the tether girth-hitched to harness tie-in points or belay loop, will break the tether. Many people have argued that tethers won't break in such situations, but there haven't been any tests that I know of to confirm this.

That said, nylon and dyneema slings are both likely to develop injurious impact loads if you fall from above the anchor. Nylon is ultimately safer in that, even with steel weights, it won't break, but practically speaking the impact loads are going to be unacceptably high with both materials. Given this, and given that there are situations in which a climber might have to move above the anchor momentarily for some reason---say to remove a backup piece. These situations are best treated as soloing.

The only thing that has even a chance of keeping impact loads in an acceptable range is a length of actual dynamic climbing rope, but most climbers find this to be too bulky as a tether.