Cleaning up France
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I've set myself a bit of work, I'll be working on cleaning up France on MP. |
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Luc, |
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Thanks Rui, yes, I have a half dozen page improvements to go through. |
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For pure Alpine rock climbs, like for example those in the Argentiere Glacier of Mont Blanc it is best to keep them in the rock section as people will likely be looking for summer rock routes in the Alps (and not in the Snow/Mixed sections). I guess a similar structure that we have for Colorado on MP should work, even if we end up having distinct Alpine Rock and Snow/Ice/Mixed pages for the same location/region. |
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I think that the MP routes for France ought to fit with some strategy for how MP adds value relative to CampToCamp.org and UKclimbing.com
A different perspective on France. Ken |
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I was imagining a huge plastic garbage bag from the title. This sounds more manageable. Good luck! |
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Shawn Heath recently did this for Germany which was a terrible mess. There was also consideration of organizing it into states, but since Americans won't know them, it was decided to mirror the "official" breakdown of climbing regions used by the German Alpine Club (DAV) and do away with the political boundaries which also couldnt account for regions that spanned more than one state. |
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Colonel Mustard wrote:I was imagining a huge plastic garbage bag from the title. This sounds more manageable. Good luck!You've no idea how long that would take, just to mention my backyard (Fontainebleau) I can point you to a couple of couches, a toilet and a printer among other things dumped in the forest! Luc, I'd be happy to write a more detailed description for the whole Bleau area with things like ethics, parking restrictions, the hunting calendar, etc. Not to emulate bleau.info which is probably as thorough as it gets, but just to give people the basics for a trip there. |
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I agree with Ken that the overall hierarchy be based on something other than administrative regions and departments. |
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As a french using widely MP to prepare my US climbing trips, i can say the MP classification (more or less by mountain range) and the map in the search engine are perfectly convenient. The administrative classification being the best way to get lost. As example, how to find the needles when refering to Tulare county! |
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pierref wrote:As a french using widely MP to prepare my US climbing trips, i can say the MP classification (more or less by mountain range) and the map in the search engine are perfectly convenient. The administrative classification being the best way to get lost. As example, how to find the needles when refering to Tulare county! The C2C search engine use both entries, by mountain range and by administrative region. I never use the later. Maybe a possibility is to use the C2C mountain range classification (d'nt know if there are copyright issues). Coupled with the interactive map, it will be a perfect tool. I can contribute if needed being at time a strong MP user but an unexistent contributor PierreDitto the above. I have a fair bit of content for France. I "build" areas based on the region I'm visiting or major city. I have no idear what admin class they're in. Nor do I really care. I use C2C just like the above poster does. Mountain range. Or specific objective (like seeing a photo of Mont Aiguille or Aigulle Dibona...and going...I gotta climb that!). What administrative district is either in? I don't really care or might not even want to know. For instance, you've added an area in front of Grenoble. Vercors is a huge area that could be a stand alone for France. The map works great and is probably the most useful tool when looking specifically at a region for a climbing roadtrip. Anyhow, appreciate the dialog. And, nice to have an engaged admin for France. Now, how about Austria... mountainproject.com/v/tztal… Ugh... |
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C2C has French areas listed under administrative regions, the FFM has them listed under Departements which are even smaller regions. |
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Luc wrote:I'm looking at the future and trying to build something which can grow, finding areas to climb out of a list of all the cliffs/mountains in the country isn't helpful at all.Disagree. Say I want to climb Mt Blanc. I go to the France section...and, I don't see it. Now I gotta fish around in a bunch of areas that don't make any sense to me, the user. "Mt Blanc region"....if that was an area under France...voila. Now I can base out of Cham, hit the local crags, climb Mt. Blanc... Same with, say, Ceuse. Look at what the users are asking for. Do you ever see someone ask, "hey, I'm going to be in the Occitanie district this fall, could anyone recommend some areas to climb?" No, they ask about Ceuse. Or the Calanque. Or, they refer to a city or region. Now, looking at the current France page, I like the organization of it and the overview with the map on the districts. Helpful. But if I'm geographically challanged (like most, ahem, Americans), I wouldn't know even from the map where Mount Blanc was in the country. I wouldn't know it was in the Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes. Maybe I should, but, I wonder if that puts off a general user looking for a popular area? One way to look at it, is, how to folks pick places to travel to for climbing? For me, word of mouth from friends, social media, books. See a cover shot in a magazine or an article. I think the route database would be more useful if the major climbing areas, cliffs and/or mountains, mountain regions or ranges were listed. Ceuse. Buoux. Ecrins. Or at least by a more common name, like, Provence. General travel guidebook to the region? Lonely Planet Provence. Not Lonely Planet Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur. Seems like adding an unneeded area but, now looking at it, yeah, there's a lot of areas. Ok, I'm warming up to it...ha ha. Someone moved my Bleu du Vercors-Sassenage! Thanks for your efforts! I dunno. Random thoughts. |
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How about having the tourist popular areas listed right under France but still keeping the larger areas where to stick the rest so it doesn't become a massive list? |
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Luc wrote:How about having the tourist popular areas listed right under France but still keeping the larger areas where to stick the rest so it doesn't become a massive list? I can list Les Calanques under France but within les Calanques I can direct people to look up Provence/South of France area to find the rest of the areas Provence/South of France could list everything stretching out but not including from the Pyrenees to the Alps along the Mediterranean coast (picking up Occitanie and PACA areas) So for under France we could list: Calanques de Marseille Ceuse? Fontainebleau Gorge du Verdon Mount Blanc Larger areas would be: Pyrenees Provence Southern Alps Chamonix/Haute-Savoie Center (including ile de france) North-West (Bretagne, Normandy, Loire, Haut de France) North-East (Grand-Est, BFC)I like that! That kinda punches the best of what folks look for, I think. See if other folks weigh in... Thanks!! |
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the way that Rock climbing areas get organized are not necessarily the best way to organize the Snow/Mixed/Ice destinations. For one there are less areas and the climbs are far more concentrated. |
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Rui is right, mont blanc and Chamonix are like LV and RR. Moreover Chamonix Valley means both Mont Blanc range & Aiguilles Rouges as already mentioned in MP. |
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pierref wrote:In the hot spots, Presles could be mentioned too. PierreShould be! But, its not on the radar of most American climbers. Nor is St. Victoire. Amazing. The Vercors is fantastic. |
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Little question approving all the routes entered, does it matter if there's no FA listed? are they even listed in the guidebooks? |