Three point anchor - The Saga Continues
|
Here is a three point anchor. What do you think? |
|
|
|
Thanks! That's certainly a good consideration. I'm not very worried about the triaxial loading because the cloves are basically touching under load, but I might use a rap ring instead of a biner. |
|
That's interesting! Seems similar to how I might approach this if building an anchor using just the rope. To avoid the tri-axial loading, you could perhaps also use two lockers, one for each clove. |
|
Why are you using clove hitches for the master point 'biner? Is it for no extension? If so, it seems like the tried-and-true overhand or figure-8 on a bight master point would be the way to go. What advantage do the clove hitches add over a more traditional method? |
|
Good questions and thanks for the input! |
|
Eric Moss wrote:What do you think?Avoid. guidetricksforclimbers.com/… It is in general a good idea to use clove hitches on bolt-side binners (cordalette/webbing will slip a bit under shock-load, providing more dynamic load compensating), but clove hitches on the power-point is not the best idea. |
|
Good article. Certainly counsels for the use of a rap ring over a biner. Like the article says, the clove is stronger than the bowline, so I don't see why to avoid it. |
|
Using a rap ring instead of a biner sounds clumsy. You'd have to keep the whole thing pre-tied (or feed the entire correlate multiple times to create the cloves at every belay) and figure out how to rack it neatly. |
|
gavinsmith wrote:Using a rap ring instead of a biner sounds clumsy. You'd have to keep the whole thing pre-tiedAlpine cock-ring, paulraphaelson.com/download… |
|
Pavel Burov wrote: Alpine cock-ring, paulraphaelson.com/download…Interesting, think I'd seen that before and forgotten about it. Still seems more complicated once you add two cloves. |
|
If I'm using some cord to build the anchor instead of the rope, and especially if I'm leading in blocks, I prefer to have a convenient master point that the second can clip/tie into. This would seemingly require you both to tie into and untie from the same masterpoint biner. |
|
I forget now where I saw it, maybe BD did it? But one of the carabiner manufacturers tested triaxial loading and found that there is a much smaller reduction in strength of the biner if the triaxial load is on the narrow side of the biner (so flip the biner around in the OP). But I also don't see why this would have any benefit over the overhand/figure 8 on a bight for the master point. With that it would be easier to clip multiple biners to the master point, where as with the cloves you can only have the one (or clip more biners to the one but then you are adding way to many directions of pull for me to be comfortable with it) |
|
Brady3 wrote:I forget now where I saw it, maybe BD did it? But one of the carabiner manufacturers tested triaxial loading and found that there is a much smaller reduction in strength of the biner if the triaxial load is on the narrow side of the biner (so flip the biner around in the OP). But I also don't see why this would have any benefit over the overhand/figure 8 on a bight for the master point. With that it would be easier to clip multiple biners to the master point, where as with the cloves you can only have the one (or clip more biners to the one but then you are adding way to many directions of pull for me to be comfortable with it)So use a rap ring. I'll post a picture with the rap ring later. Thanks! |
|
will ar wrote:If I'm using some cord to build the anchor instead of the rope, and especially if I'm leading in blocks, I prefer to have a convenient master point that the second can clip/tie into. This would seemingly require you both to tie into and untie from the same masterpoint biner. "I prefer it over the tied cordelette because it has a higher clip for a given v-angle and because it equalizes better." You can always clip your guide style belay device or have your second clip in above the shelf if that's a concern.Thanks for the info. I have a few questions if you'll indulge me: Why is the biner less convenient to clip to than a loop of cord? Doesn't clipping above the shelf negate the redundancy of the tied cordelette? |
|
looks very hard to untie if weighted heavily, cloves reduce breaking strength by about 50%? yeah looks like an anchor made with lead rope. |
|
tim naylor wrote:looks very hard to untie if weighted heavily, cloves reduce breaking strength by about 50%? yeah looks like an anchor made with lead rope.Thankfully, it's not very hard to untie. According to an earlier post, cloves reduce strength by at most 37%. Thanks for your help! |
|
Eric Moss wrote: So use a rap ring.That would fix that issue, but I still don't see the benefit. |
|
Brady3 wrote: That would fix that issue, but I still don't see the benefit.Better equalization and a higher power point for a given v-angle. |
|
Mountain Tools Webolette
Been using these for over 15 years. I carry two in the Big Wall length for multipitch trad. They are lightweight, easy to set up, and easy to manage. I don't work for Mountain Tools. It is just a great product and great shop. |
|
Idk, seems clumsy and I had never enjoyed having a bunch of knots on a single biner, just become difficult to manipulate. |