Haul System Feedback
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This summer I will most likely be climbing with a 3 person party and I was thinking of using this set up for our haul. Any advice? |
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prussic will probably be problematic. |
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Replace that draw with a pulley, you're going to get a crazy amount of friction there which will substantially increase the difficulty of hauling. |
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I was thinking I could use my other ascender instead of the hitch. |
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Hudon's version of the 2:1 is the way to go. If you can't do 2:1, bring less crap. |
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I am by no means a hauling expert, but here are my two cents. |
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1. if you are in a 3 then you might like to use a counter balance haul as you have a spare person anyhow |
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Here is my new design. Better? |
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Was hard at first to see the mechanical advantage, but I do see it. Looks much better. |
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Nicholas Aretz wrote:Here is my new design. Better?Stop using biners as pulleys. You're going to rape yourself hard trying to overcome the friction of the biner over the course of an entire wall. Pulleys are the single most critical component of a hauling system so use the real thing. Dont use garbage brass busing pulleys either, use real ball bearing pulleys. Quality pulleys will make a difference. |
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Sorry but where is he using a biner as a pulley in that setup? I honestly don't know, not trying to say there isn't one. |
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He has a biner attached to the ascender. That should be a pulley. |
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I see now. Thanks. |
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Use only ball bearing pulleys. Those crappy little ones with a nylon sheeve or brass bushings are only 70% efficient (biners are about 50%), and lower the mechanical advantage from about 1.8:1 to 1.3:1 just due to poor efficiency. Copy Mark Hudon's hauling setup unless you know better, and if you know better you don't need to be asking questions here. |
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Moof wrote:Copy Mark Hudon's hauling setup unless you know better, and if you know better you don't need to be asking questions here.I did copy Hudin's design with one modification. I am using the pro and not mini, so I hung the pulley off the protraxion. I do not know better and that is why I am looking for input, however, there are many ways to get the job done and I am investigating the best way with the tools I have. If you are tired of the conversation you can stop responding at anytime. Everyone is stressing the importance of pulleys so I am going to invest in a second one. Thank you for the helpful comments and I can't wait to practice! |
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Hey Nick, |
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Nicholas Aretz wrote: I did copy Hudin's design with one modification. I am using the pro and not mini, so I hung the pulley off the protraxion. I do not know better and that is why I am looking for input, however, there are many ways to get the job done and I am investigating the best way with the tools I have. If you are tired of the conversation you can stop responding at anytime. Everyone is stressing the importance of pulleys so I am going to invest in a second one. Thank you for the helpful comments and I can't wait to practice!I see no resemblence. The 2:1 Hudon uses has a Zee cord, and does not use the main rope for the 2:1 portion. He also uses all good pulleys, never any biners as pulleys or prussik's. The second attempt is getting there, but still uses a biner as a pulley. Also watch the amount of stretch between you lifting ascender and the traxion. When you release tension on the zed cord the traxion takes the weight. With a couple feet shown in your arrangement you will lose about 10-15% of that couple feet to stretch on every cycle. Try to have your holding ratchet and your lifting ascender nearly touch at the end of each stroke to minimize losses. Jeff0's rig is a classic case of using crappy pulleys. My partner brought a 2:1 rig on Mideast Crisis with plastic pulleys. The top one melted halfway through the first haul. Using crappy ones costs you about 1/3 loss in mechanicql advantage compared to decent 90% efficent pulleys. |
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Holy crap! |
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Alright I think I have it this time. I know my bottom pulley is only 70% effective but my top one I believe is better. |
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You REALLY need to tie a sling through the upper pulley, and not connect it to the haul anchor with a carabiner. You need the extra degree of freedom so the pulley can twist into the right orientation. If you put that design under load, it won't work as well because the carabiner restricts the pulley from going into the correct orientation. |
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I upgraded my pulleys to 2" PMP SMC's. |