Moral Delimma

So here is the scenario: A few months ago my climbing partner and I were climbing a multi-pitch trad route. My partner took a lead fall, injuring himself and had to bail off of my gear. He had to have surgery to fix his ankle and I have been wondering, do I ask him to split the cost of the gear or has he paid enough of a price with his injury? I have been trying to figure out if it is completely messed up for me to consider bringing it up or not.

Just buy it and hope for the best

You answered that question when he started leading with your gear. At least that's how I see situations like these. I took a big fall once onto my friend's #2 BD stopper (thank the Lord it held), and we ended up tearing the wire to get it out. We had a talk and he assumed the responsibility for replacing it with his own coin, given that he had allowed me to use it in the first place.

He's paid enough. If he's a nice guy, maybe he'll buy you a replacement cam. But an injury and surgery are both painful and expensive. If I were in your partner's situation and you asked me to pay, I might, but our partnership would be dissolved. As soon as I tie into a rope with someone, I assume a "we're in this together" mentality.

Yeah, that is kinda what I was thinking too. I would have gone up to get it, but his ankle was obviously broken. Ah well, didn't know if there was a consensus on this sort of thing

He should offer to pay for half of it (even though he has additional medical bills). If you still climb with him and he leads, insist he use his rack.

Apparently, he hasn't mentioned it, right? You might just point out that you had to leave "x gear" behind to bail and see if he gets the hint.

He should offer to pay you for your stuff. If he doesn't, is the price of the stuff worth losing a friend?

Chris treggE wrote:He should offer to pay you for your stuff. If he doesn't, is the price of the stuff worth losing a friend?

Here's another way to look at it: if he doesn't offer to replace the lost gear, is he a friend worth keeping?

As a rule of thumb, my partners are 50% responsible for any lost, stuck or bailed on gear, regardless of who's leading or cleaning gear.

That being said, I may pitty them if they broke bones. Guess it depends if they could afford it or not.

The price of the gear is obviously not worth losing a friendship. I just didn't know what the ethic on this was. I agree with what you say James, which is why when we accidentally left some of his gear at the bottom of a climb, we split the cost.

Is this an episode of Seinfeld?

Monomaniac wrote:Is this an episode of Seinfeld?

It's the principal of the thing, Jerry!!

Eat your losses. A good partner is worth more than a few pieces of metal.

When you tie in together, you are partners in whatever happens. So you should each pay for half of the gear that was left behind, and you should each pay for half of all resulting medical bills too. Maybe you should kick in a little more, like 70/30, since you didn't have to take on any of the pain and suffering.

For fuck's sake, dude.... it was an unfortunate accident. Sometimes there are consequences. Be glad that yours were extremely minor compared to his. The only thing you should be talking with him about is asking how you can help his recovery.

Em Cos wrote:When you tie in together, you are partners in whatever happens. So you should each pay for half of the gear that was left behind, and you should each pay for half of all resulting medical bills too. Maybe you should kick in a little more, like 70/30, since you didn't have to take on any of the pain and suffering. For fuck's sake, dude.... it was an unfortunate accident. Sometimes there are consequences. Be glad that yours were extremely minor compared to his. The only thing you should be talking with him about is asking how you can help his recovery.

Chill dude, I was just asking a question.

But if it makes you feel better I have the full intention of breaking my ankle so we will truly be "in it together"

Did you attempt to retrieve the gear at a later date?

If not I'd say it's on you. If you did go back for it and it was gone that might be a different story.

I'd say if it was a handfull of nuts I probably wouldn't say say a thing. A few cams I might say something.

LeviWalters wrote: Chill dude, I was just asking a question.

...and I was just answering it. Or did you only want answers that agreed with you?

Sorry if it's not what you want to hear, and of course it's just one persons opinion which you are free to ignore - but like I said I think you are asking the wrong question. You didn't go back up there right away for your gear, because as you said your partner's injury was more important in that moment. I'm suggesting that it still is. A broken bone requiring surgery is objectively worse than losing some gear. You should be offering support, not asking your partner to share 50/50 in the lost gear when you aren't sharing 50/50 in his losses. (and I'm not suggesting that you could or should)

Climbing is an at risk sport. Your health and your gear is at risk. There is no insurance! If your gear gets stuck tough shit. You took the risk now you pay the price. That is the deal. If you want a different deal make sure you discuss it before you climb with someone

One of my mentors in kayaking says "everything you take on the river is an offering to the river gods, and they will decide what you get to take home". I think the rock gods are the same. I've spent gear (sometimes expensive gear) helping others out, both paddling and climbing. Most often they've offered to help pay for it, but I always decline.

I have accepted beer and chocolate though, and once a bottle of wine that was clearly worth more than the two carabiners involved. I shared; it was win-win.

I had a similar situation, 4 1/2 pitches up, came back the next day and got my gear myself.