Modify shoes to reduce heel rand tension?

I bought some Scarpa Techno X women's shoes for climbing granite in New England. I love their performance (the orange toe rubber is amazing), but even after giving them a little time to see if they stretch, the fit is incredibly painful.

I sized them so that the sole of the shoe is just a tad longer than my foot (and my toes can lay flat in the toe box). But, the "bi-tension heel rand" shoves my toes hard into the narrow toe box and out of the heel cup. I'm wondering if I can reduce the forward-pulling tension in the heel rand and get the fit I'm looking for.

Has anyone here modified shoes or seen a way to modify shoes (e.g. slicing or removing heel rand rubber) to reduce the heel rand tension? In your expert opinion/experience, would this even work?

Or I'd be happy to hear suggestions for a thin-to-fists crack shoe. (I'm a girl by the way, but happy to try on men's shoes; I have a wide forefoot but small heel.)

Here's a picture of the shoe and its heel rand so you don't even have to go look on the internet to offer your opinion. :)

I have never tried anything like this, but I would think that instead of cutting the rand that it would work much better to sand down the rand so that it was thinner. Another factor is the material under the rand, is it synthetic or is it leather?

I've done this to a pair of TC pros. The result was awesome. I cut the rubber on both sides and peeled the rubber back to allow some stretch. Before I could wear them for an hour before the heel started screaming. I wore them for about 12 hours straight this weekend without issue. I feel zero loss in climbing performance. If I were to do it over again I would cut as far forward as possible and peel back from there to be able to dial in the stretch but mine have come out fairly perfect as is.

i am interested in doing this to my TC pros as well. They hurt like a bitch in the heel after a couple pitches which is not optimal for a multi trad shoe.

Don.

You are the man. I am going to do this to my shoes tonight

I've done as Don has, and would also cut farther forward if I were to do it again. I've also felt no loss of performance, just less pain.

Edited: I did not pull the rand back. I just carefully made the cuts through it on each side.

I don't feel a slingshot rand is needed (or wanted) on a stiffer all day trad shoe. I started climbing before shoes had them and a shoe would break in and be as comfortable as an old slipper - but still climb as well as ever. I imagine this only holds true on a stiffer shoe that can be worn more loose. Man it would be nice to have shoes that comfortable again!

Thanks for the photo, Don! That's pretty much exactly the effect I was going for. Good to know to slice as far forward as I can.

Hang on, don't cut that slingshot just yet.

Those shoes have a fairly low tension slingshot, compared to the TC Pro's. If the toe box feels narrow but your toes aren't hitting the front, try to completely loosen the laces. Especially around the toe box. Put your shoes back on and ever so gently, loosely snug up the toe box area. Once you get behind the toe box around where your arch starts, start snugging the laces a bit harder. This will keep your foot from sliding forward but will leave room in the toe box.

You won't solve narrow toe box by reducing the slingshot, especially if its already low tension. The shoe may not be right for you. I'm not sure about those shoes but my TC's took a long time to get really comfy. I actually went a 1/2 size up but once the smaller ones broke in they were perfect.

I'm having the same issue with my new TC's

I just bought a pair and got them in the same size as I wore in the Mythos (40 1/2) and they are killing my heels. I barely made it up a 50 ft sport climb my first time wearing them a couple weeks ago. I have been trying to wear them in the evenings around my house but its pretty goddamn painful.

I may have to give this a shot if I don't feel them getting any better soon.

Maybe I'll just run them over with my truck a few times or drag them behind me on a log approach.

EDIT: Just re-read your post, rocknice2. My toes are definitely hitting the front to the point of creating numbness and bruising in my big toenail after wearing them for ~30min. It really feels like the heel or slingshot is shoving my foot into the front of the shoe while leaving a small gap behind my heel.

I'll play with the laces and compare them to my well-fitting shoes before I butcher them to decide if slicing the rand would help...or if I'm better off selling them and trying a different type!

For the TC pros, I actually took a hammer to all the stitching and seams on the slingshot rand - so basically the entire rand. As dumb as it sounds, it actually made a very noticeable difference. I'd try that before slicing up a nearly $200 pair of shoes.

That said, these shoes, along with my katana laces (similar last, little softer, more downturn and aggressive heel rand), are some of the most painful shoes to break in I've ever owned. Give it some time, and they'll come around.

Store the shoes with shoe trees in them, set so that the back part of the tree (basically a shoe stretcher) presses against the slingshot to stretch it out.

The weird thing for me is that my TC's did not start hurting until after I resoled them. I got them resoled, and they started hurting in the heel a while later.

On a similar note, has anyone who has Haglund's Deformity (bone spur on the back of your heel to the outside of your achilles) tried sanding the rand down thinner to reduce pressure on the bone spur?

I have TC pros sized so that my toes just lay flat and for steep climbing (edging) they are fine on for 3-4 pitches, but when the angle drops and I have to smear the pain gets ridiculous. That's the worst time also because the low angle stuff is usually where I want to simul climb and be going for a while.

^^^ I'd be very interested if anybody has come up with any good solution for this particular problem. I've got moderately pronounced haglund's deformities on both feet. My shoes are fine for the most part now, but long pitches of either slab or hard, thin edging really trashes my heels.

I'm hesitant to do anything involving cutting the slingshot, since I like the edging performance. Anybody try "punching" problem spots in the rand, like a ski boot?

I recently used a professional shoe stretcher in town. They showed me how they work a heel cup to soften/loosen it. It's very high tech. :) They take the handle of a screwdriver and, holding the metal shaft, they rub the handle really hard against the heel cup from the inside of the shoe. This may or may not loosen them enough.... you can try also spritzing the area with a solution of water and rubbing alcohol first, although this will affect the leather's pliability more than the rand's, admittedly.

If you used Don's method and you wanted to start conservatively, you could try increments of partial cuts on the rand vs the entire thing at once. This is along the lines of how surgeons will often cut anatomical fascial restrictions in people. A partial incision is sometimes enough.

After reading rocknice2's reply, I agree that the Scarpas have a much less aggressive heel band, so maybe something else is wrong. I do kind of have Haglunds or something similar (bony bump on the heel) so that could be contributing. I'm going to try half a size larger before I start slicing, but if I do slice I'll update with my experience to help future shoe surgeons.

Yup I've got Haglunds deformity. It took me quite lot of experimenting to find a solution. Tried everything from padding with silicone, didn't really work well. Buying sloppy beginner shoes, didn't hurt but didn't climb well.

The best solution was to grind away the part that was pressing against the lump.

Thanks rocknice2! I made a modification inspired by yours, but it was a bit more drastic. I was travelling, so didn't have access to many tools, and any pressure on my Haglund's Deformity caused extreme pain.

Anybody tried this on 5.10 pinks, I also have haglunds (probably from the pinks but hey they're great)