Kinda stupid tag line procedure question

I have been climbing on double for multi-pitch a few years and am thinking about starting to use the single/tagline combo instead for rappelling. I played with it a little last week at red rocks and it was a super pain in the ass. I think I need to work on my procedure.

How do you use your tag line? For this discussion lets assume everything is at the climbers limit but will not use the tag line to pull up extra gear in mid route nor hall.

1. Does the leader drag it?
1a. If so attached to the follower or just left hanging?
1b. If attached to follower, do you pull the rope up at the same time as the lead, like you do with doubles or one rope at a time?

2. Does follower could drag it?
2a. How does follow if from hanging belay to hanging belay?
2b. Have you ever been in a situation where the the second is trailing the tag line and it gets caught up.( I am worried about this because red rocks seems like snag central)

Thanks!

1. Yes.
1a. Left hanging.

2. No. It will get tangled around something, fall off a ledge, or get in the way of other parties.
2a. See above.
2b. Yes. I've seen it several times. One time I even tied off the end of a tag line belonging to the party above me (forcing them to rappel) so my team could then pass. *winky winky*

Unsolicited suggestions:

As an alternative: If the leader doesn't want to drag the tag like he/she should (perhaps the pitch is very difficult?), the follower can backpack it and carry it that way. This is the best way to go on easy ground, but if you find yourself needing to do quick hauls or the terrain is very difficult for both you and your partner, the leader trailing it is the way.

Also, there are almost no routes in Red Rocks that require a tag line for descent. There is almost always another way. Where is Dow Williams when you need him?

I'd avoid scenario 2 for the exact reason you mentioned. If it gets hung up you are going to be annoyed, in the best scenario.

Same for situation 1a, a blowing tagline on a leader is even worse if it gets caught.

1b would work, but at that point you might as well be using doubles. Most people I know pack the tagline in a pack, this seems to work for them.

Personally, I started using doubles after realizing what a PITA a tagline was.

Thanks Josh,
If you are at a hanging belay, do you have two independent coils? One for each rope?

Twice as much rope does indeed require twice as much management.

It's always nice if you have a big ledge... But usually what I do is:

1) I arrive at the belay and set up an anchor.
2) I stack the lead line over my lap and put my partner on belay.
3) While my partner is tearing down the previous anchor and preparing to climb, I quickly coil the tag over my shoulders. When this coil is complete, I then hang it out of the way on the anchor itself (draping it over the cordelette/slings).

This seems to minimize time wastage and keep things organized.

Dave Schultz wrote:3: Tagline stuffed into a bag, carefully though so it comes out clean. Leader or follow carry it clipped to their harness

What kinda bag do you use for this? I like the idea of carrying on the harness and being able to switch it between partners quickly. I am trying to move away making a rope backpack because it feels slower and makes the transitions slower. Also, I don't usually climb with a pack

If the leader doesn't need to tag stuff up with it then keeping it in a bag or backpack is the way to go. One of us almost always has a backpack so that's what I usually do.

If you're not bringing a backpack then any generic stuff sack from a sporting goods store is the lightest and cheapest option.

My partner and I started using a tagline setup a few months back and we've found that the follower carrying the tag in a backpack coil is our favorite method. Takes 10 seconds to change the tag over at the belay (just don't drop it) and you don't have to worry about coiling it, stowing it, or untangling it at every belay. Was really hesitant to leave behind doubles, but this setup has been flawless so far. No looking back.

Tagline

Dave Schultz wrote:1: When it is time to rappel: the tag line comes out, is attached to the main line, and then attached to the first person rappelling, as they rappel the tag line is allowed to come cleanly out of the bag.

This is good advice, and has worked well. I'd add this: When you're doing a multi-pitch rappel, one person pulls the tagline, while the other is stacking it back inside the backpack after each rappel. That way, it feeds freely out of the first rappeler's backpack for every rappel.

Edit: I'm surprised this hasn't deteriorated into the "do/don't rappel on the tagline" disagreement. I just rappel on the single, fat line.

Leader trails tag

- tag hangs free
- tag is flaked separately when staring
- tag is clipped to leader gear/haul loop with a locker
- leader gets to belay, he takes out a sling, clips one end to one anchor bolt/piece and the other to his belay loop
- leader clips the tag locker to the anchor
- leader pulls up the tag and flakes it over the sling, after thats done he unclips it from his belay loop and clips the sling to itself to make a saddlebag
- leader then belays the second normally

Once the second gets to the anchors whoever leads the next pitch can simply clip the tag locker to their loop and its all ready to go

Note on steeper routes you can hand haul a bullet pack with the tag .... Just put it in autoblock in yr guide/reverso ... The second can easily clear the pack if it gets stuck

Also for self rescue purposes having the leader trail the tag to something structural (rated haul loops) GREATLY simplifies self rescue

;)

I've been using a 6mm tag and 9.4mm lead rope for a long time now. It's really quite simple. The leader just trails it clipped to his haul loop--that's the entire purpose of the haul loop. The second stacks both the dynamic rope and tag line at the belay. The 6mm tag is so light that even at the end of a pitch the leader wont really feel it. I've never seen the 6mm tag get hung up while the leader is climbing, not even when taking a big whip with it attached.

Dont have the second trail it. If the second trails it, it can get caught somewhere down below and hose up the team. But most importantly, if the leader trails the tag line, he can hand-over-hand the second's backpack up which is a BIG plus when climbing hard multi-pitch routes. It SUCKS to climb a really hard pitch with a pack on, so being able to hand-over-hand haul it really pays off. Further, if the leader can get the pack up quick, he can drink water and eat food while the second is climbing, which he will certainly want if he just

In summary, tag benefits are:

- Can rap without a second rope
- Tag line is so light the leader wont even really feel it
- Leader can tag the second's bag up, freeing the second to free climb more fluidly and allowing the leader instant access to supplies while belaying.
-Also, technically if you're climbing a pitch with unknown pro and you have some wide, heavy cams you want to leave, having a tag allows the leader to leave them at the belay while still retaining the option to retrieve them later in the pitch if needed.

Drawbacks:

- Cant simulrap.
-If the tag gets stuck on the rap and the dynamic is out of reach, it's going to be a sketchy retrieval process.

If you're climbing something easy and you dont need to tag up the second's pack, then you can just throw the tag in a backpack and have the second carry it.