Recoverable anchor kit (for rappelling)
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Hello everyone. |
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Brian, |
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Not really applicable for cragging. Perhaps useful in other situations where you can't afford to bail on gear. |
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Hi guys, |
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I frequently use a macrame or a fiddlestick for retrievable anchors in canyoneering. The downside to your described system is that it requires 3Xs the length of rope as the rappel, falling metal objects, and the potential for your webbing and pull line to get stuck. With a stiff dynamic rope the macrame will still work. You have the potential with these retrievable systems to get your rope stuck in an unsafe manner that you wouldn't want to jumar back up. That said, with lots of practice there are occasional situations where it can expedite or make a descent more safe. Be careful and have fun getting sketchy. |
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Brian Lomicka wrote: Frank: "you normally retrieve your anchor material when you finish climbing, then rappel from the chains or rap rings already installed" I do understand this, and obviously if there are bolts or established anchors I would use them. I'm specifically discussing the situation where those are not available, or look dangerous to use.Established climbs that do not have hardware for rappelling or lowering (or there is not hardware nearby on another route) are a "walk-off." If you are just picking some random cliff to climb on, well, most climbers don't don't that! Or leave some webbing. |
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Sorry Frank, maybe that is the case where you climb, but even in my short climbing experience I have experienced twice where gear was left. Once where an anchor was sketch and we decided not to use it (there's a significant re-bolting effort going on in my area, but not everything has been attended to yet). And once because no fixed anchor existed (guide book indicates rap off tree). |
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only to the issue of width of tag lines. |
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Brian L. wrote:Sorry Frank, maybe that is the case where you climb, but even in my short climbing experience I have experienced twice where gear was left. Once where an anchor was sketch and we decided not to use it (there's a significant re-bolting effort going on in my area, but not everything has been attended to yet). And once because no fixed anchor existed (guide book indicates rap off tree).Honestly man, if the hardware is to sketch to use, consider leaving a sling with a quicklink behind as a favor to future people who climb the route before the hardware can be replaced. Every route I can think of that has the statement, "rap from a tree" has a tree with webbing already set up for rappel from previous climbers. If not, set one up and leave it for future climbers. The ONLY reason I have seen anyone use a tag line is to avoid having to carry an extra rope for a double rope rappel. You will see it most often in canyoneering because they will use a biner block and tag line for exactly this purpose. |
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I have a 6mm canyoneering tag line that I often use when I need double ropes to get down and don't want to use twins. |
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Learn to tie the daisy of death. Just don't rap off the wrong end |
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Wouldn't a releasable figure 8 block do the trick? or am I missing something in the scenario? |
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If you're trying to pull your webbing off from around a tree the knot, open loop, any ring/quick link present, and the "tag line" itself are likely to pull rocks or other debris down on to you. Just pulling a straight section of rope can be dangerous enough, rockfall from pulling the rope during rappels does kill people. |
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Downclimb. |
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The idea has been around a lot loner than Leave no Trace ethics as dirt bag climbers have always been looking for ways to save a buck. There are even a few devices out there (no longer being manufactured) designed just for the purpose. I remember getting some samples of a couple devices decades ago. A quick internet search reveals numerous techniques for retrievable anchors. |
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Brian L. wrote:Hi guys, Thanks for the replies! What is the reason you say a retrievable anchor is "not applicable for climbing" or inappropriate? Three people have said it, but no one has explained the reasoning behind it.Consider the reason you need to build your own rappel anchor. If it is an established climb, there will be an established descent - either a rap station (whether bolts, or a slung tree or boulder) or a walk-off. If there is meant to be an established rap station but it is missing or unsafe, you would probably be a better steward by leaving a new, safe rap set-up than by leaving no trace. If it is a new climb you are establishing, and rapping is the best way down, again it would often be better to leave the rap anchor behind for the climbers who will follow. If you are bailing off a climb before finishing, this would have some application - but you would have to be lucky enough to need to bail right where there is an appropriately sized tree growing out of the cliff. I think carrying a whole system just in case you might need to bail is kinda like carrying bivy gear - if you bring it, you're more likely to use it. As to the system itself, you either need to only rap distances 1/3 the rope length, or carry an extra tag line, or tie a knot in one end of your rope (for the type of set-up with 2 differently sized rings). I wouldn't want to limit my rap distance in the first case, carry an extra tag line just for this in the second case, or deal with pulling a knotted end of rope down the cliff in the third case. Regardless, you're pulling down the webbing & rings contraption, and if you've ever dealt with a stuck rope (which can happen even with no knots or extra gear!) you'll know why this is a bad idea. The extra gear can get stuck, or pull down rocks on top of you - both situations can range from pain in the ass to dangerous. This set-up isn't really appropriate for climbing because it can cause problems, and it is solving a problem that doesn't really exist. Webbing and quicklinks or rings are cheap, just leave them behind in the rare cases when you need to. As for LNT - I'm no expert but I suspect that leaving one sling in place around a tree may be kinder to the tree than if every climber pulled their sling around and off the tree after each rap - I could be wrong though. Arborists are in a very different situation - they don't need to think about the "next climber" who will need an anchor, don't want to leave an eyesore of webbing in a tree that will never be used again, and don't have to worry about pulling rocks down onto themselves. Hope that helps! (BTW - 2mm is way too small for a tagline.) |
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According to Dirty Dingus McGee, |
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I can understand the desire for a retrievable anchor for alpine climbing in less traveled places. It's fun to wander around in the mountains and the adventure is better if you never see a trace of anyone who has been there before you. It seems like most of the people who have already responded only climb at crags or well established and traveled routes. |
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It comes down to one thing. If the anchor is recoverable it is also alot more likely to fail, your basically designing an anchor that will fail on purpose. Is your life worth leaving 100$ or less in gear on the wall? You don't need to leave gear behind on most climbs unless you fail to reach the top. |
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ViperScale wrote:It comes down to one thing. If the anchor is recoverable it is also alot more likely to fail, your basically designing an anchor that will fail on purpose. Is your life worth leaving 100$ or less in gear on the wall? You don't need to leave gear behind on most climbs unless you fail to reach the top.+1 |