Another Accident due to mis-use of the Gri-gri

T Roper wrote: No way man, its the grigri death contraption. You cant make me forget what you taught me. Grigris are dangerous, especially when combined with Home Depot rope, fish oil and n00bs.

you forgot micro-fractures.

jesus christ, if you treat the gri like it's a standard tube device you'll kill someone.

eli poss wrote: you forgot micro-fractures.

And the bi-metallic corrosion between the steel cam and the aluminium body.

Well, it'll be interesting to follow the true adventures for a couple of years and see if T-eli-luc don't end up with a drop between them - wonder what odds would the pros in Vegas would give (on the bold assumption you're all still climbing in 2020).

Healyje wrote:Well, it'll be interesting to follow the true adventures for a couple of years and see if T-eli-luc don't end up with a drop between them - wonder what odds would the pros in Vegas would give (on the bold assumption you're all still climbing in 2020).

Wow, betting on people to deck now, nice Joe.

Merely observing 1:3 odds may actually be within the realm of possible over four years. We'll see...

Tim Lutz wrote:So belaying with a Gri is essentially 'volunteering as tribute' And HealyJ is Haymitch. just substitute the whiskey for LSD It all makes sense now.

That would be the climber, not the belayer and it's probably doesn't rise to the level of 'tribute'; more like dropping a buck into a slot machine as you're casually strolling by it - what are the odds...?

Ryan-G wrote:Can someone hook me up with some LSD?

Mama may have, Papa may have
But God bless the child that's got his own
That's got his own

climbing friend,

tickle my teets. no one can give you mathematical formula for chance of dying on any given climb due to error belay or other factor.

you must be bold, don't climb with people that seem to have poor belay practicings, and continue on with your bold-flash-hmmmmyah. Or you may just do the bouldering-climbing rocks, and become most crushing and strong of all.

Hopefully you live from your climb and you have a fun-time-euro dance party when you arrive home, and you impress everyone by you muscle and neck meat and fall in love with climbing girlfriend, myah?

I am planning trip to hammerfest in these months coming to search for good boulder in the arctic circle. I think this type of cold-4-plan for cold boulder flash will do the wonder to toughen my mental up, as well as the crushing fingers.

I write to you to tell you I also very much like start cold arctic bouldering competition based in hammerfest. I think it would be most exciting to do this arctic winter bouldering to see who really is most tough and has most powerful neck meat!

My father was a blacksmith in hammerfest growing up. Perhaps that is where I obtain my love of all things crushing, myah?

Aleks Zebastian wrote:...myah?

What the feck is "myah"?

"Myah" is the inverse of "feck". ;-)

I decked in April from 30ft up. My belayer was using a Grigri 2 and, I assume, did not have their brake hand set. The rope flew through the Grigri and I did not stop until I hit the ground. It happens.
Always use a brake hand.

reddit.com/r/climbing/comme…

oh and in case anyone missed it ... the deleted rock and ice video where the grigri didnt seem to function very well "as a tube" should the camming not engage

youtu.be/4A8-jsLAZV4

Yeah, waving your break hand around in a circle like you're reeling in a trout while repelling is "proper use" of a grigri, and in no way is why it failed as a tube device...

Matt Wilson wrote:Yeah, waving your break hand around in a circle like you're reeling in a trout while repelling is "proper use" of a grigri, and in no way is why it failed as a tube device...

grigri hand position at the time of "failure" at the video ... brake hand is on the rope



perhaps you missed the fun MP "arguments" earlier in this thread ... let me refresh for you

-----


I set up a rappel in my basement with an old-model grigri with its lever tied open with a cam strap (like on a crampon). There was no visible movement of the cam.

Rope: a short length of 9.8mm in okay condition. Not fuzzy yet.
Climber weight: 130lb
Rappel glove: OR Airbrake that fits me well

With the rope running off the end of the device, I found it impossible to stop with a single brake hand. I just slowly slid down the rope. I could stop by squeezing hard with both hands.

With the rope running off the right side "rope guide", I could stop with one hand but just barely. Having the rope run off of the sharper left side provided better braking, but it still took a lot of work to stop.

I am not going to try dynamically loading the device, as it was hard enough to brake when gently easing my weight into the rope. I get way, way more friction from body belay/rappel techniques than with a disabled grigri.

---

I have tried using a Grigri threaded backwards to test whether it would in fact behave like standard tube device. IMO it did not provide enough friction to safely arrest a fall.

I think Jim T. has some figures on this.

------

perhaps you could run for tests for us catching a few grigri whippers with the cam tapped down with a few wraps of duct tape?

i suggest proper backups or using someone you REALLY dont like

;)

bearbreeder wrote:I decked in April from 30ft up. My belayer was using a Grigri 2 and, I assume, did not have their brake hand set. The rope flew through the Grigri and I did not stop until I hit the ground. It happens. Always use a brake hand. reddit.com/r/climbing/comme… oh and in case anyone missed it ... the deleted rock and ice video where the grigri didnt seem to function very well "as a tube" should the camming not engage youtu.be/4A8-jsLAZV4 ;)

Both of these cases prove nothing.

The reddit post is a joke. "My belayer dropped me". no details, no nothing.

The video shows a bit more but its not perfectly clear. It sort of suggests he opened the lever in a state of panic but it's hard to tell.

rocknice2 wrote: Both of these cases prove nothing. The reddit post is a joke. "My belayer dropped me". no details, no nothing. The video shows a bit more but its not perfectly clear. It sort of suggests he opened the lever in a state of panic but it's hard to tell.

theres nothing to prove

it just shows that folks keep on getting dropped with grigris ...

just like folks get dropped with ATCs

folks shouldnt expect grigris to always catch em if the person using them is not well versed in their use and doesnt pay proper attention

heres another one where no one knows what happened ....

Jimmy Burckhard, 31, was climbing the bolted route Foot Fist Way (5.13a) in a limestone canyon southwest of Rapid City on September 26. He had previously worked on the route a couple of weeks earlier. On this day he climbed partway up the route, yelled “take,” and his belayer held him for a rest. He continued up the climb and then, at about 70 feet, near the top of the route, he let go again. He expected to take a short fall, then lower and rest to attempt the redpoint. Instead he plunged toward the ground, impacting on his heels. Burckhard broke both feet, his wrist and thumb, and three vertebrae in his back.

A local climber hiked out of the canyon to a point where he could get cell reception and dialed 911. Responders carried Burckhard out of the canyon to an ambulance.

ANALYSIS

Burckhard was climbing with one of his regular partners, and both men are very experienced climbers. The belayer was using an assisted-braking device, and when Burckhard asked him after the accident what had happened, he responded, “The device failed.” No further information was available. (Source: The Editors.)

publications.americanalpine…

getting dropped or dropping someone aint any joke ... but sadly it seems to have become more "acceptable"

woohooo ... 15 post limit hit again !!!

bearbreeder wrote: grigri hand position at the time of "failure" at the video ... brake hand is on the rope perhaps you missed the fun MP "arguments" earlier in this thread ... let me refresh for you ----- I set up a rappel in my basement with an old-model grigri with its lever tied open with a cam strap (like on a crampon). There was no visible movement of the cam. Rope: a short length of 9.8mm in okay condition. Not fuzzy yet. Climber weight: 130lb Rappel glove: OR Airbrake that fits me well With the rope running off the end of the device, I found it impossible to stop with a single brake hand. I just slowly slid down the rope. I could stop by squeezing hard with both hands. With the rope running off the right side "rope guide", I could stop with one hand but just barely. Having the rope run off of the sharper left side provided better braking, but it still took a lot of work to stop. I am not going to try dynamically loading the device, as it was hard enough to brake when gently easing my weight into the rope. I get way, way more friction from body belay/rappel techniques than with a disabled grigri. --- I have tried using a Grigri threaded backwards to test whether it would in fact behave like standard tube device. IMO it did not provide enough friction to safely arrest a fall. I think Jim T. has some figures on this. ------ perhaps you could run for tests for us catching a few grigri whippers with the cam tapped down with a few wraps of duct tape? i suggest proper backups or using someone you REALLY dont like ;)

The guy's hand is above the grigri and not in the brake position. Perhaps you don't understand physics, but a big part of using a tube style device is keeping your brake hand below the belay device so you create an additional point of friction on the brake side of the belay device. Go try to repel using an ATC with your brake hand above the device. And for good measure make sure you are very jerky as you lower yourself. Let me know far you manage to lower yourself before you lose control and deck.

bearbreeder wrote: 15 post limit hit again !!!

thank you Mtn Proj!

Matt Wilson wrote: The guy's hand is above the grigri and not in the brake position. Perhaps you don't understand physics, but a big part of using a tube style device is keeping your brake hand below the belay device so you create an additional point of friction on the brake side of the belay device. Go try to repel using an ATC with your brake hand above the device. And for good measure make sure you are very jerky as you lower yourself. Let me know far you manage to lower yourself before you lose control and deck.

hey matt ... perhaps you missed it ... heres a split second before



i eagerly away you cam defeated grigri WHIPPAH tests

;)

BB, after rereading the thread title you are correct. All belay devices are subject to misuse. There is no getting away from human error. We can mitigate the error by extensive training but it will never go away completely.

I was under the assumption that you were saying, auto block devices fail for no apparent reason. To the best of my recollection this has never been shown

bearbreeder, how many people have you dropped since you started climbing?