New Trad Rack

DMM Offset nuts before you buy anything else.

Also I love my C3's and my X4's, but I'd get C3's first

dave higdon wrote:For a beginning trad climber, is it less imperative to have thin pro for tight spaces? Seems like a beginner trad climber would use a lot of 1"-3" pro... Please, correct me if I am way off base here guys.. I have never led a trad route in my life, but I have been building a rack to get started as well, and that has kind of been my philosophy thus far. I actually plan to try and do my first trad lead this weekend at Joshua Tree, so all my gear may be for sale real cheap if I break my legs Alex! dave

I think it depends on the area you climb in. Here in the Gunks we use plenty of small stuff, occasionally even into brassies, at very moderate grades. But I'd say that in a lot of places (not here) nuts will cover the small sizes really well for cheap. If you buy more than one set of nuts, consider buying a different brand for the second set. I love the DMM Wallnuts that are my "normal" nuts, but I also carry three medium sized DMM offsets that are incredibly useful, and I just got a nearly weightless set of Wild Country Superlight rocks that I'm finding really handy in spots where nothing else is working.

I think one 3" piece is nice to have on a starter rack, but I'd definitely want more cams below 1" before I got a second 3" or even 2" piece. Purple through red camalot sizes, plus a nice range of small to medium nuts are your workhorse pieces for most easy climbs. I've eliminated the blue camalots from my standard rack. I only bring them if I know they're needed.

kurt gregory wrote: I have a set of BD hexes from size 1-7 and they make no more noise than a set of nuts.

I call BS. Hexes are ridiculously obnoxious.

Buy a cam. There's literally no advantage to a hex unless weight's of the utmost importance (long alpine climbs). If you're looking to climb at your limit (eventually) you'll want cams.

I went with X4s in the sizes under .5 (.4 and .3) and I freaking love them. They're surprisingly easy to place well given the smaller range compared to a bigger C4, and just about all of the placements I've gotten have been super solid. There comes a point with really small cams where I don't honestly see the point unless you're aiding...

Todd Ra wrote: I call BS. Hexes are ridiculously obnoxious. Buy a cam. There's literally no advantage to a hex unless weight's of the utmost importance (long alpine climbs). If you're looking to climb at your limit (eventually) you'll want cams.

I think they sound beautiful, but that may be because I learned trad in the south. And they have advantages other than the weight:
1 They fit better than stoppers in irregular shaped cracks
2 They work in flared placements where a cam won't
3 The noise refreshes your arms at the crux

I'll still take my tri-cams over my hexes, though, and I'm sad to admit my hexes don't get the action they deserve

"Also, any issue with mixing and matching brands of cams? Is it confusing to differentiate sizes between brands?"

Mastercam sizing is very close to BD, just with totally different numbers on them, e.g. the #4 red MC is about the same size as the 0.5 purple C4/X4. So you can put them all on a purple biner.

NorCalNomad wrote:DMM Offset nuts before you buy anything else.

Seconded! I feel like I can just just throw the biner of DMM offsets at the rock, and one of them is likely to land as perfect pro.

I like to use my hexes whenever I have a really solid stance so that I can save my cams for the really desperate placements. I can see why people wouldn't bother bringing hexes once their rack gets big enough and they have doubles of every size, but for those of us with meager racks, hexes are a great way to fill in gaps in your cam range. I also feel a lot better about hexes in anchors than I do about cams, honestly.

Jim Turner wrote: Mastercam sizing is very close to BD,

Not really. Some are close but the majority falls in between.

Todd Ra wrote: I call BS. Hexes are ridiculously obnoxious. Buy a cam. There's literally no advantage to a hex unless weight's of the utmost importance (long alpine climbs). If you're looking to climb at your limit (eventually) you'll want cams.

I'm not saying don't get the cams, im just saying hexes are more useful that people lead you to believe. Also "literally no advantage" besides weight? I can buy a whole set of hexes for the cost of 2 cams. plus long term replacement cost if you have to bail on a piece of gear. too many people today just get tunnel vision on cams and that's it, its a shame. granted if youre insanely rich then by all means go with just cams but if youre that rich what are you doing on mountain project?

kurt gregory wrote: granted if youre insanely rich then by all means go with just cams but if youre that rich what are you doing on mountain project?

seriously?

headead wrote: seriously?

Sarcasm bro, lots of sarcasm. I would never say anyone is unwelcome to participate or have input on this beautiful sport.

Ted Pinson wrote:I like to use my hexes whenever I have a really solid stance so that I can save my cams for the really desperate placements. I can see why people wouldn't bother bringing hexes once their rack gets big enough and they have doubles of every size, but for those of us with meager racks, hexes are a great way to fill in gaps in your cam range. I also feel a lot better about hexes in anchors than I do about cams, honestly.

Agreed. I always have a few hexes on my rack. Just picked up a set of the DMM torque nuts. Looking forward to trying them out soon!

dave higdon wrote:For a beginning trad climber, is it less imperative to have thin pro for tight spaces? Seems like a beginner trad climber would use a lot of 1"-3" pro... Please, correct me if I am way off base here guys.. I have never led a trad route in my life, but I have been building a rack to get started as well, and that has kind of been my philosophy thus far. I actually plan to try and do my first trad lead this weekend at Joshua Tree, so all my gear may be for sale real cheap if I break my legs Alex! dave

You could find yourself on a runout 5.6 trad route and your only placement for 40 ft could be a small horizontal crack. Been in this situation numerous times. Not so much the case on single pitch where you read the beta before hand but been a handful of times leading multipitch trad routes where I was glad to bring some smaller gear.

Small cams are finicky. It's as simple as that. It takes a decent amount of experience to accurately evaluate the quality of a small cam placement. For that reason, I don't think beginning trad leaders should worry much about micro cams (say smaller than a blue TCU). It's more important to learn to place nuts well and to be creative with them. Small nut placements are much easier to evaluate. Often easier climbs don't require small cams to be led safely, so get some experience first and then get some small cams.

That being said, I've climbed a lot with TCUs and Totem Basics. I have some limited experience with mastercams and C3s. When I got the totems, they immediately replaced my TCUs as my go to small gear, so I'd recommend them over everything else. On the other hand, I've whipped on just about all of them (00 TCU included) and they all hold fine as long as the placement is solid.

Dave, you might want to go as low as .5, but otherwise...yes. With a set of nuts and that cam range, you should be fine for most beginner trad routes. Just make sure you read the route beta and only do climbs that are well protected - no PG-13, R, X. If you know there's lots of horizontal cracks and/or you want to avoid the situation the above poster mentioned, get a few tricams. The pink, red, and black sizes are all super useful, cost about 20 bucks, and take up next to no weight on your harness. Just practice placing them on the ground, as they're a little weird to place...but once you get placing tricams down, they're super solid, quick and easy to place.

Todd Ra wrote: I call BS. Hexes are ridiculously obnoxious. Buy a cam. There's literally no advantage to a hex unless weight's of the utmost importance (long alpine climbs). If you're looking to climb at your limit (eventually) you'll want cams.

1. Hexes are much lighter than cams.
2. Hexes dont walk
3. Hexes stick in flared cracks where a cam would walk and fall out.
4. Hexes have a large surface area to spread the load so are much less likely to shatter soft rock such as sandstone.
5. Hexes dont require friction to stick. Cams do.
6. Hexes are much cheaper.
7. Hexes are more reliable and easier to learn to place well than a cam.
8. Hexes have no moving parts and dont need the trigger wires replaced or repaired

No advantage to a hex?

Really... I'm just trying to deter future hex-buyers so I don't have to listen to them while I climb three states away... :)

Todd Ra wrote:Really... I'm just trying to deter future hex-buyers so I don't have to listen to them while I climb three states away... :)

I have all sizes of hexes. I put the largest one in my pocket as I walk and the rest make no more noise than anyone else's rack without hexes. you place them right on your harness and there's no issues :)

Hexes are so bomber!