Gunk's Near Trapps App Now Available.

After a year of labor, documenting, climbing, rapping routes, and designing, the Next Ascent Near Trapps app is done and available in the iTunes store,

itunes.apple.com/us/app/nex…

Don't worry Android users, a version for that is on its way.

This guidebook app has been a massive undertaking and I want to personally thank Joe Forte for taking the amazing aerial photos we used to make some of the most detailed topos ever. And everyone who helped with grades, topos, and descriptions.

Gunk's Near Trapps too from Next Ascent Guides

The app has ground reference photos too and full route descriptions including pitch-by-pitch detail and history and first ascent beta.

Near Trapps App

The app contains routes from Kansas City to Eenie Meenie as well as a very brief start of Lean and Mean. We will be adding more areas weekly and are offering the app at a discount until we have every route (which will be very soon).

Gunks App

Were rapidly growing our App-Guide library and will be adding many more guidebook apps for the Northeast soon, including some New England and Upstate, Upstate NY guides very soon. If you would like to be notified when we add updates to the app or add new guides to our quickly growing library please email us at: Next Ascent

You can also visit us at nextascent.org

Thanks you again for everyone who helped out on this guide. Especially Joe Forte, and also Dave Kotch, Chris Neil, Chris Martin who let me drag them around the past few weekends to take yet more photos and drink yet more beer. Bacchus has eternal flowing pitchers of Narraganset BTW.

See you out there and thanks so much of the support
Gunks app

Nice work; those photos look excellent!

When will the android version be available? timeline wise?

Thanks for the kind words guys.

D-Roc:

I think the Android version is a few weeks out but we might do an e-book for Android users for just a few dollars in the meantime if folks are interested; we've gotten a lot of inquiries thus far on when the Android will be out :)

Sara:

Purely coincidence on the timing on this app. We currently have several dozen authors working on guidebook apps for the northeast right now. We worked sooo long on this app it was just time to release it.

I think the guys who did the Gunk's app did an amazing job of the Trapps app. It is truly a fantastic job and gorgeous app they did and I hope climbers will support us both :)

FYI it is The Gunks. Not "Gunk's" with an apostrophe.

I'm looking forward to checking out the app.

sara pax wrote:Interesting timing this app coming out a few days before the Gunks App Nears app comes out.

Thank you for clarifying this, as I thought there already was an app by Chris due to be out soon...

sara pax wrote: Word on the street is this weekend.

I don't mean to hijack the thread but it looks like the other app is out right now. At least i see it on the Google Play store.

john l. wrote: I don't mean to hijack the thread but it looks like the other app is out right now. At least i see it on the Google Play store.

Trapps or Nears?

From today:
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sara pax wrote: Trapps or Nears? From today:

Nears:

play.google.com/store/apps/…

Nears

I haven't tried to buy it yet, though.

The Next Ascent app is pure awesomeness! Really like it. I seem to have a Smith Rock guidebook with the app that I didn't need to pay for. I'm wondering if that is intentional?

I purchased both of the recently-released apps for the Near Trapps and I have some definite opinions about their relative merits.

I should say at the outset that I am friendly with Chris Fracchia, who is one of the prime movers behind the Trapps App and the Nears App. He and I aren't friends in the sense that we get together socially, but I have seen him at the cliffs many times and he has been very helpful to me when I have asked him for info on Millbrook. Apart from these interactions we have no relationship. Basically I say we are "friendly" because I admire his work and have had occasion to talk with him about it. I have never met the makers of the Next Ascent App.

With that disclaimer out of the way, I will cut to the chase:

There are now two apps available for the Nears, which is quite a luxury. If you look at them both it quickly becomes clear that The Nears App is far superior to the Next Ascent App.

1. Completeness

Neither app is finished. The Nears App is complete from the beginning of the cliff out to Yum Yum Yab Yum. The Next Ascent App currently extends further down the cliff-- all the way down to Lean and Mean-- but there are large gaps covering huge portions of the cliff. The developers of both apps promise comprehensive coverage at some point in the future.

If you look at the way the routes finished so far are documented, however, you will see that the Nears App is far more comprehensive. In the areas covered so far, the Nears App documents pretty much every route, with numerous variations meticulously documented. The Next Ascent App, by contrast, skips a lot of routes and generally doesn't provide the variations.

Take the opening portion of the cliff. Last week I was in the Nears and it was raining. I was in the opening part of the cliff where it stays dry and I did a route called Crass. I only did this route because it appears in the Nears App. It isn't in the Next Ascent App. It is no classic but it has a great crux roof and then another fun traverse/roof escape.

Or take a look at Inverted Layback-- a popular 5.9 with several different possible starts. The Nears App documents all of the variations and gives you an opinion about them. The Next Ascent App only gives one option.

2. Overview Photo Quality

Both apps have large overview photos of the cliff with the lines drawn in. The ones in the Nears App are of higher resolution than the ones in the Next Ascent App. The difference is quite noticeable, to the extent that with the Nears App you can really make out exactly where to go, while from the overview photos in the Next Ascent App you sometimes cannot, because large features are obscured.

3. Detailed Base Photos

The Nears App has a detailed base photo for every single route, which makes finding the start of the routes all but idiot-proof. The Next Ascent App only occasionally provides such a photo for a small number of the climbs, and sometimes the photo provided is actually for a neighboring route.

4. Quality of Descriptions

The Nears App has descriptions of every pitch and variation. The descriptions aren't quite as complete as you'll find in the Williams guidebook but they are substantial. It is a real improvement over the Trapps App, where the initial editorial judgment was to make the descriptions very spare. (This has since been corrected to a large extent by the makers of the Trapps App, but that is another subject.)

In the Next Ascent app, it is much more spotty. Sometimes there are detailed descriptions, sometimes not. Easy Rider is included in the app but no pitches are actually described. If you look at the legendary sandbag Broken Sling (5.8), you'll find a good photo of the base and an accurate overview topo photo, but no description of the two pitches at all. I would like to see the terror on the face of the 5.8 leader who starts up Broken Sling with only the Next Ascent app for guidance!

Sometimes the descriptions in the Next Ascent app leave much to be desired, or leave out crucial details. Wooly Clam Taco has a description,for example, but it just says one should start on Eastertime Too and "go left." The description of Yellow Belly's pitch two fails to mention that pitch's defining feature, the alcove. These are just a few examples.

5. Accuracy

I sometimes wish to quibble with the makers of the Nears App about their editorial choices. But I haven't found any outright mistakes in their descriptions of routes or in the lines on the photos. Chris and his collaborators seem to be almost maniacal in their efforts to get the lines on the photos correct.

In the Next Ascent app, by contrast, I found several issues in a single pass through the app. Sometimes the information is simply missing or is actually for a neighboring route-- such as when the app provides a description of the obscure route Topeka but provides a detail photo of Kansas City, or similarly provides a description of a route called Sling Line but a base photo of Broken Sling.

On other occasions I saw things I regarded as mistakes. The Outer Space (5.8) topo line sends you into the correct notch but then sends you over a 5.10 variation roof instead of left to the standard belay. One other example: I think the Grand Central (5.9) topo line should go further right when that route goes around the nose.

And then there are other times when the editorial choices are highly questionable but I guess I can't call them "mistakes." Take, for instance, Fat City, which is perhaps the most legendary route in the Nears. The topo line on the overview photo in the Next Ascent app sends the climber left up the traditional Fat City, skipping the overhang which provides the crux 5.10d climbing on the Direct version which everyone does nowadays. And then the description of the upper roof (with the famous hard-to-clip piton) states simply "go over the crux roof with spooky maneuvering." I'm not sure what this description does for anyone. If you wanted to do Fat City and you only had the Next Ascent app, you wouldn't know the Direct existed and you might not be able to locate the upper crux.

Or take the megaclassic Yellow Ridge (5.7), one of the best climbs in the Gunks. I guess it isn't a mistake that the Next Ascent folks give no base photo and don't describe the climbing up to the off-width. In the Williams guidebook there are at least three different potential starts, and in the Nears App there are two, very clearly photographed and described. But users of the Next Ascent app are told only to climb up to the off-width, which has the potential of sending them up the poorly protected direct start up the nose of rock just beneath the off-width. this doesn't serve the users of the app very well.

6. Navigation

The Nears App is easy to use. It has a seach function for names and grades. Each route has a clear base photo with descriptions and you can click through to the topo overview. Simple.

The Next Ascent App has no search function. Navigation is divided by the areas of the cliff and if you have a route in mind but don't know which area it is in, good luck finding it. There are useless area maps purporting to help with the approach but really they just show Rte 44/55 on a map with portions of the cliff marked by a star in the middle of a green area. The app can be downloaded to either an iPhone or an iPad but the app is clearly optimized for the phone. When I try to use it on my iPad sometimes the things I want to click on are off screen and I can't scroll to them.

Overall, I think the choice is clear. It is kind of amazing that we now have two of these apps for the Near Trapps. If the Nears App did not exist, I might recommend the Next Ascent app as a worthy supplement to the guidebook. It is handy to have on your phone if you don't want to carry the book up the cliff.

But since the Nears App exists, I can't see any reason to purchase the Next Ascent version. The Nears App is just so much better in every respect.

SethG

You were clearly put up by someone to defame the Next Ascent app as nobody would take the time to nitpick every detail of that app like you did.

You are clearly a billboard for the Gunks App, app. C'mon dude.

I have both apps and I totally disagree with most of what you said. You skim over issues that are apparent with routes missing in the Gunks app, app but knock Next Ascent for the same thing?

I think the Next Ascent app is every bit as good as the other app. It's not perfect but the drone ariel photos in BOTH apps are amazing.

Also with the Next Ascent app you get a free Smith Rock guidebook, a free bouldering app for someplace in Pennsylvania, and I see they just added other free apps for Devils Tower or something.

Personally I think both apps are amazing but Im not going to go busting Next Ascents chops because I know Chris Fraccia. I support both apps but I especially support the Next Ascent app because they are giving me free guidebooks when I support them.

You are entitled to your opinion though.

Brad

I wasn't put up to anything by anyone. Feel free to disagree with anything I say! You might be more persuasive if you try to cite examples as I did-- but for all I know attacking my motives may be just as effective.

Hi SethG,

Thanks so much for checking out our app. We truly appreciate it!

I was just emailed about this thread and will make sure to read through it again in detail. Just like the Trapps App (which I think is also a great app btw), we are starting out with an app that will be evolved over the next few months.
We are going to make sure that every route in our app has full pitch-by-pitch descriptions and very lengthy descriptions with the most detail possible; most do now but we will be adding more beta weekly.

Although we do have ground pictures and aerial pics of the upper pitches for almost every route currently, you are correct, there are one or two routes that a ground shot is missing; however, we will make it a priority to add those within the next week.

Next Ascent is a very large project that will, in the very near future, have guidebook apps for nearly every major crag in the US. We rely completely on our contributors and passionate climbers willing to make sure every detail is accurate so I truly appreciate your comments and will read through them in more detail so we can improve our app, take your suggestions, and make it the best thing out there.

Thanks you so much for taking the time to go through our app and please check out some of the free guidebooks that we add weekly.

Thanks again and feel free to email me if you want to discuss any ways we can improve any of our guidebook apps: nextascentguides@gmail.com

Thank you again, we rely heavily on passionate climbers like yourself as support to continue our project.
Best
Rob Holzman

Bradclymber--Knowing Seth personally, I can assure you that he would ABSOLUTELY take the time to nitpick every detail of both of these apps! :) Have you read his blog? I think it speaks for itself both in terms of comprehensiveness and total climbing geek-out joy. He's just really psyched on the Gunks and wanted to post a review! You can disagree with him all you want, but just always try to remember Guideline #1 and don't go ascribing ulterior motives to people you just met on the internet.

Seth--Awesome review. Haven't tried the Next Ascent app, but I agree: the GunksApps Nears App is just unbelievably awesome.

Well I'm sorry if I came across as crass here. Not my intention.

I just don't like seeing such things said about such a visually stimulating climbing app. It just seems so off base for such a well-done app.

Either way they are both really awesome apps. I'm just more inclined to support an app like Next Ascent that is giving me free guides.

That said I will still buy the Trapps app now ha ha.

Holy crap, that was way more civil that I'm used to on this site! Thanks Brad. Climb on!

SethG wrote: I did a route called Crass. I only did this route because it appears in the Nears App. It isn't in the Next Ascent App.....The descriptions aren't quite as complete as you'll find in the Williams guidebook but they are substantial.

Crass gets sufficient documentation in the Purple Dick, the Black Dick, and Swain - why did you need an app to find it? What does the fact that an experienced climber like yourself needed an app to highlight an obvious route just 3 minutes from the road that is well withing your climbing ability mean? I guess to put it bluntly, is this the end of the "hidden gem," the kind of fun little route that only gets done by those who diligently read guidebooks or who just climb whatever is open? If so, thinking big picture, are these apps necessarily a good thing?

This post has been significantly edited to remove incorrect statements I made about the Next Ascent App. However, even after correction, the conclusions remain the same.

You have to appreciate the efforts that go into these apps. But Seth is spot on about everything---the Trapps App, although so far only going as far as Yum Yum Yab, is a far better implementation at present then the Next Ascent effort, whose appearance seems just plain premature to me---it isn't ready for popular consumption yet, and compared to the Trapps App is going for a premium price.

There are notable differences in many of the cliff topos. The Next Ascent shots are lower-resolution than the ones in the The Gunks app. Many of the Next Ascent shots don't have enough resolution to be zoomed much. By contrast, most of the Gunks App topos can be zoomed to provide so much detail that verbal description really aren't necessary. Add to that the a fairly complete set of first-pitch photos---with the lines actually drawn in---and the Trapps app comes out significantly ahead at this point.

When the Next Ascent photos are zoomed, they appear in either portrait or landscape mode depending on decisions made by the developers. Some routes with traverses that are displayed in portrait mode could be zoomed bigger if the phone could be rotated to produce landscape mode (Le Plie is an example). This issue is a bit moot because the resolution of the photos doesn't allow for much zooming anyway. In some parts of the cliff, the relatively low-resolution Next Ascent shots are tolerable; in others, especially past YYY, the lack of resolution make the topos of marginal use.

As Seth says, past YYY, the coverage of the Next Ascent app is very spotty (and the Near Trapps app has nothing yet) but even before that a number of routes in the Next Ascent app are in first draft state at best---they should have been left out until there was real content. Yum Yum Yab is a good example. There is no topo on the route page, just a picture of someone's hand with tape on it. The description says,

"14 feet left of Vultures Know look for an overhang and a clean-looking slab. Move left past vegetated ledges and a slabby, left-facing corner."

That's it. No one who doesn't already know is going to find the start and the top two pitches aren't described. This isn't even a first draft yet.

When you look at the description of Vultures Know, you find it is 14 feet right of After You. The description says,

"...find a section of rock that hosts several fractured, left-facing corners."

And that's it for this route. It at least comes with a picture, but I doubt anyone will be able to make much sense of it.

These routes are obviously in the process of being written up. And in other cases the descriptions are complete but await editing for typos. (I'd also say an editor's touch is needed for various linguistic infelicities as well. For example, I'm not fond of the Le Plie description that says "the crux pitch will rake you left...") In the language of Wikipedia, a number of the Next Ascent route descriptions are "stubs." Putting them in the app makes it look as if there is more there than there really is. By contrast the Near Trapps content is solid.

There are quite a few other examples of "stubs" in the Next Ascent app. Easy Rider has no description and the accompanying photo is the mistaken one for Outer Space that diagrams Outer Space Direct.

Seth mentioned some errors in the Next Ascent app, and there are more. The topo for Yellow Belly pretty much misses the entire first pitch, and the line for Boston Tree Party is far right of the route. These are things I noticed in passing; I made no attempt to exhaustively inspect the descriptions and topos.

Some of the Next Ascent beta photos are weird too. For example, the Layback Area screen has a shot, unidentified, of someone starting up Te Dum. If you tap the photo to get some information, you get a photo of the start of Yellow Ridge. Someone who doesn't already know the climbs is going to find this mighty puzzling.

I've never been much of a fan of star ratings, whose subjectivity makes them of questionable use. But it is peculiar to see a climb described in the Next Ascent app as "one of the best in this section and a classic example of Nears climbing" and then find it only gets one star. More evidence the app isn't ready yet.

And as Seth notes, the "area maps" in the Next Ascent app are stars on a large-scale topo and are a worthless use of screen real-estate.

Next Ascent may get better---I hope it does and wish them well, but I can't see any reason at this point why anyone would use it in preference to Purple Dick, which is comprehensive, does as good a job as is possible with verbal descriptions, and has an index. There's no search function on the Next Ascent app and not even an easily scrollable single list of climbs. The Near Trapps app is as good or better than the Next Ascent app in every detail and feature, and the high-resolution photos in the Near Trapps app provide a significant upgrade to the information in Purple Dick, meaning that the app actually adds value to the information already available. The same cannot be said of the Next Ascent app at this point.

As for Lucander's concerns about the apps bringing the crowds into what are now the Near Trapps backwaters, I'm afraid he's probably right. It may not be long before we start hearing about the need for bolts and chains to get off all those one-pitch routes.

The MP app has been around for a while now, long before these paid apps came along. I don't know that we can blame apps for increasing traffic. There's just more climbers. I once saw a climber trying to find routes at the Trapps with the printed Nears guide. I don't think having a paperback versus digital version changes anything, other than perhaps climbers actually finding the route they were looking for *gasp* [we wouldn't want that! lol].

Next Ascent is going to have a hard time breaking in to areas where there's already good guidebook and climbing app coverage. They'd have to offer something especially alluring, which apparently this first attempt is not.

rGold,

Thanks so much for checking us out we really appreciate it. You said

"The Next Ascent shots are small, less than half the vertical screen, are distorted by using a very wide-angle lens, and can't be zoomed by screen "gestures." The Gunks app topos fill the phone screen"

Actually ours DOES already have 100% screen capability. The sample we have in this post is of it non-zoomed. So I totally understand why it might not be obvious.

Here is what we have for every topo in the app.

Gunks Nears App

Just like Facebook, you simply double tap any photo in the description view and it will enlarge full-screen. I did understand your concern about portrait mode. We will fix that ASAP if users think it might be a nice option?

I really appreciate the feedback. We are working every day to improve the app as it has only been out just over one month.

We've had a huge spike in downloads the last day do to this post so thanks so much for all the support.

I will be adding a page to our website so we can take suggestions there and continue this duscussion about updating our app specifically.

As mentioned above, we have many free guidebooks in our library within our app.

We would love suggestions of what other regional apps we can do for free for the climbing community?

Thanks again
Rob H