Is leaving your dog at the base of multipitch climb really Animal abuse?
|
Again, if immigrants from the Midwest and East Coast stop moving to Boulder and stop sniffing their own farts I bet this stops being a problem. |
|
Clearly you can't read. |
|
Alexey Dynkin |
|
Tom Sherman wrote:Alexey Dynkin The point is, it's up to the owner to decide, not you, not the passive observer. Until they make a law against it, its none your damn business. That's the whole idea I'm pushing. I may not even agree with have the shit I'm spewing, just playing devil's advocate to make a point. It's not up for anyone, especially all us assholes on mountainproject, myself included, to start telling other people what to do with their, dog, baby, pack, breath, etc...I agree with that to an extent. If the question is strictly between how one person chooses to interact with their dog, then you might have a point (though I still reserve the right to call that person a shitty dog owner). However, as many others have mentioned, the other part of the equation of pet ownership responsibility is the social expectations and etiquette associated with it. And, like it or not, climbing is essentially a social activity - certainly so in a busy place like Eldo. And that means it's no more acceptable to leave your dog tied to the bottom of a multi-pitch route, than it is to leave it tied to a street sign at a busy intersection while you go to work. And no more OK to let your dog run free at the base of the wall, than let it hang out in the city all day! Am I going to be the vigilante who calls animal control in either case? Nah, not really my style. But I sure as hell wouldn't wish that kind of owner on any dog. To conclude: the answer to the OP's question: "Is leaving your dog at the base of multipitch climb really Animal abuse?" In most cases yes, or borderline...and in pretty much all cases, completely unacceptable. |
|
Alexey Dynkin wrote: it's no more acceptable to leave your dog tied to the bottom of a multi-pitch route, than it is to leave it tied to a street sign at a busy intersection while you go to work. And no more OK to let your dog run free at the base of the wall, than let it hang out in the city all day!I can't even |
|
Sir chuffs alot wrote:Again, if immigrants from the Midwest and East Coast stop moving to Boulder and stop sniffing their own farts I bet this stops being a problem.i bet you have a "native" sticker on your subaru |
|
I think the intent of the OP was to make people think about the practice of climbers leaving a dog unattended for an extended period of time in a public area and whether it somehow endngers the animal. I am of the opinion that it is a bad idea but am not going to call it outright abuse. |
|
HO LEE SHITE!! |
|
spencerparkin wrote:The specific example I'm thinking of is the I-street trail-head (BST) above the Avenues moturner wrote: City Creek is an SLC watershed, and above the dam, dogs are prohibited. Below the dam, dogs are allowed. In Memory Grove, with the exception of the grassy area, dogs are allowed off leash. Sorry dood. I live on Canyon, with a dog, and thems the rules, actually. spencerparkin wrote:Clearly you haven't read the sign at the BST trail-head moturner wrote: Clearly you can't read. Didn't even mention the BST (you made that shit up) just City Creek between Memory Grove and Bonneville BlvdLet's see here... Specific mention of the I-street trailhead: check. You ignore it and go off about a different area (City Creek / Memory Grove): check. Attempt to clarify that you're thinking of a different trailhead: check. You accuse someone of not being able to read since you never mentioned that trailhead. Time to insert your foot in your dumb mouth. Also, there is a "no off-leash dogs" sign at the trailhead Spencer mentioned. |
|
Boissal- |
|
Alexey Dynkin wrote: To conclude: the answer to the OP's question: "Is leaving your dog at the base of multipitch climb really Animal abuse?" In most cases yes, or borderline...and in pretty much all cases, completely unacceptable.Totally a first world problem. Just eat the beast and be done with it. |
|
ViperScale wrote: The fact that you are keeping a animal that should be in the wild as a pet is probably an issue to begin with. Given alot of them have had the wild breed out of them but still.canis familiaris is not simply a few shades removed from a wolf. They've *evolved* _with humans_ for at least 100,000 years. They are communal animals, not pack animals. You might find a herd of once domestic dogs (as I observed countless times in iraq) who are now ownerless. They never truly regress/ascend back into a pack social structure aka wolves. I can strongly recommend the book Inside a Dog |
|
My dog regularly follows me to the base of multipitch climbs (often times, remote desert towers) and patiently waits for me unleashed by my gear. If I'm out of his sight for hours I'll yell his name once in a while to let him know that I'm OK and haven't forgotten about him. |
|
Leaving your pet to roam free and unsupervised can have a huge impact on local wildlife. A recent, especially shitty example was an unsupervised pet In calico that dug up and chewed a desert tortoise out of a burrow. That tortoise eventually had to be euthanized. If the owner had been around even partially checking on what their pet was doing the adult tortoise would have lived. It looked like it was chewed on for quite awhile before anyone intervened. Just sayin, off leash isn't the answer to the animal cruelty question. I for one would prefer a slightly unhappy leashed animal or climber choosing to single pitch in order to be a good dog owner than to see wildlife harassed. |
|
I don't especially think its cruel to the dog at all but some common sense should be used. Put the water and food bowl where it can't be spilled (down in some rocks maybe). Shade is obvious if it's hot - out of any rockfall zone - not where it might bite someone trying to just walk on the trail - just normal stuff is all. But the biggie - at least to me - is the dog itself and how it behaves alone. Just because your dog is friendly to you does NOT mean it is going to be friendly to all that pass by on the trail - I once saw an entire area of cliff line shut down by a Husky tied on the trail who was going to bite anyone that got near it. When it's owner came down, the dog was as friendly as could be. If your dog starts barking when you leave the ground and continues until you get back - that's not enjoyable to either the dog (I imagine anyway) and especially to the people nearby. The fact that you "can" take your dog everywhere doesn't mean you "should". Dogs vary - just like owners. |
|
Depends on the dog, depends on the area, depends a lot of variables that could really only be looked at in hindsight and not planned for. In 27 years of climbing, there are places I used to take my dog, Kenya, but wouldn't even consider taking my dog (Orbit or Ghost - but never both given their disruptive teamwork tendencies) now. Eldo is one of those places - even the West Ridge. Having a dog means you have to make a few concessions for the sake of the sport and other users, especially along the Front Range. You don't really "have to" do anything, but not considering how your actions or inaction might be impacting others, who's day is just as important as yours, makes it pretty clear how you determine reality (and in population centers that inevitably builds conflict). |
|
|
|
Went and climbed a multi-pitch last week. Tied my dog up at the bottom with a long leash, food, and water. Didn't hear a peep from her the entire time we were on the wall. Came back 3 hours later and she was just chillin, laying down, gnawing on a stick. The crag was a low traffic crag (we were one of only 2 groups there all day.) My dog is a young Siberian Husky. It's all about how your dog is trained, where you are, the weather, etc. Please don't make rash generalizations about pet owners. My dog loves going climbing with me more than anything, and having to wait at the base of a climb for a few hours is a small price to pay to get to run around the woods with her dad the rest of the day. |
|
The only thing I have learned from this thread about leaving your dog at the base of a multipitch climb is... yes, you can and no, you should not. |
|
DrRockso wrote:Went and climbed a multi-pitch last week. Tied my dog up at the bottom with a long leash, food, and water. Didn't hear a peep from her the entire time we were on the wall. Came back 3 hours later and she was just chillin, laying down, gnawing on a stick. The crag was a low traffic crag (we were one of only 2 groups there all day.) My dog is a young Siberian Husky. It's all about how your dog is trained, where you are, the weather, etc. Please don't make rash generalizations about pet owners. My dog loves going climbing with me more than anything, and having to wait at the base of a climb for a few hours is a small price to pay to get to run around the woods with her dad the rest of the day.Again, what the dog owners are forgetting is that anyone else happening by doesn't know a damned thing about your dog or what it will do. |