Doing what makes you happy

I should have saved this for this thread I guess.

“A human being is a part of the whole, called by us "Universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely, but the striving for such achievement is in itself a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security.” Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

I believe this is what the Stoned Master is pointing towards. What Larry is saying is a strongly upheld misconception at the root of all problems we face in the world today.

Yourself exists only as an idea in your mind. It has a false identity which was given to you at birth. It has the story of your life that describes how and why you are who you are today. The voice in your head is not what you are but for most of us that voice is running our lives. Most people spend their entire lives in this mind dominated state. Sometimes we get a break from it and experience our true selves, like when we’re climbing perhaps.

Selfish behavior comes from action which is born in this mind dominated state, and it could take any form. Since almost everyone lives in a mind dominated state, also referred to as being unconscious, almost all acts are selfish. That means that almost all relationships and interactions with other people are selfish at their core.

Sometimes we experience our true selves. If we have awareness about this reality we can start to live consciously. We can quiet our mind and let our true insight, creativity and love flow through us and take form in our actions. We are then living selflessly. The mind is an important tool, not an identity.

This is the fundamental concept of all spiritual teaching and is verified through scientific study though often misunderstood. Try it for yourself and see.

youtube.com/watch?v=EvGJvzw…

Happiness is bound to the law of opposites and cannot exist without sadness. To live with a concept that certain things makes you happy is to create a world where you will be unhappy as well. The illusion of happiness is connected to the illusion of time and so we spend much time thinking about how we will be happy when something happens in the future or dwelling on unhappy thoughts from the past.

Trotter’s line of thought is widely accepted but reinforces what is essentially a mental illness that we all suffer from. It is more likely that if you are to do what makes you happy and avoid too much unhappiness you will never know your true self. Happiness is often a hindrance to growth. Intense unhappiness and suffering is more likely cause you to let go of your illusions.

There is only one thing you can do to “fully develop into the person you were meant to be”. Give all your attention to the one thing you are doing right now. It’s that simple.

I don't understand all this mystical stuff about "true selves" and "dominated minds"... I think what isn't always obvious to us, being conditioned to be individualists, is that human beings are deeply social on a neurological level (not surprisingly, since we've evolved to be this way). We do things because they feel good, but our experience with other people around us continuously modifies our perspective.

My opinion is that ~95% of us continue to climb because of the collective psyche generated by the community around it. It feels really, really good to belong to a community. All you have to do is read the interview in the OP to see how important the inspiration of other climbers was in creating his passion. Without that, you get the olden days of climbing where only a few renegade hermetic hardmen participate. We idolize them now, but very few in the wider society did back then, and they were the rare kind of person who doesn't give a shit.

To finally get to the point, I can't answer the question "is climbing selfish?" concretely, but I can say that if I did it ALL the time, I would feel quite shitty about not contributing to the wider society whatsoever. That guides my perspective on it.

Absolutely do whatever makes you happy. Be it climbing, raising a family, building a business or making other people happy, or doing a hodge-podge of every thing. As long as it makes you happy, whatever it is, do it. Try being considering of others on your way of happiness pursue. Because hurting other people will not make you happy. Being a meanie will not make you happy either. So don't whine, stop complaining and start road to happiness...wherever it leads. As long as you are happy. Nuf said.

First world problems...
Oh, and don't break the law cos it can be quite a spoiler too, along with unwanted pregnancies and plastic surgery gone wrong.

Thanks, Ben. I was just reading that and thinking of responding, but You wrote that much better than i could have.

Fat Dad - I see how you could fit nihilism on what I said, but i'm not trying to negate any typically meaningful aspects of life (meaning, morality, beliefs), rather trying to make the point that a person can see thru their own actions to those very things which form their underlying motives (beliefs, values, morals, etc), and recognize that they are acting in the (selfish) interest of those motives, that they can take ownership of them, at which point they can take meaningful action and be accountable to themselves for their own happiness.

StonedMaster - That's just another perspective of the same thing. From the angle I am describing it, when considering yourself and your actions, you have no option but to be "selfish" in acting in a way to satisfy your needs, beliefs, etc - including your beliefs and values in the consideration of others... then selfishness ceases to exist, because there is no other way to be. Selfishness / Selflessness only exists as a comparison - where an observer judges the actions of another.

Frank PS .. Thats right!!!

ViperScale wrote: Not completely true. Some people do stuff they don't want to because they feel it is right, not because it makes them feel good.

Doing the right thing probably makes people feel more "good" than doing what is wrong. Therefore, back to the original quote.

ZANE wrote: Doing the right thing probably makes people feel more "good" than doing what is wrong. Therefore, back to the original quote.

Not always true though, I know plenty of cases that doing what was right made me feel like a jerk but it was the right thing to do.

Most people do lie to them self and it is very sad. They would rather pretend they are doing something good or think they are great at something then be honest with their self and what they are doing. All you have to do is sitting around and listen to people talk about their day of climbing and most of the stories are so much greater than what they really did.

It's a fine line between "living the dream" and eating pigeons under an overpass.

Hank Caylor wrote:It's a fine line between "living the dream" and eating pigeons under an overpass.

First, it's " butthurt... I sense". Second, being a part of middle class in the US is being only one step away from eating pigeons under an overpass. Be it a divorce, a close family member's major illness or an accident, or loss of a steady income due to layoff or disability. Living paycheck to paycheck as we all do, why not do something that makes you happy while you're at it. Maybe eating pigeons is what some of us need....

eyesonice2014 wrote: First, it's " butthurt... I sense". Second, being a part of middle class in the US is being only one step away from eating pigeons under an overpass. Be it a divorce, a close family member's major illness or an accident, or loss of a steady income due to layoff or disability. Living paycheck to paycheck as we all do, why not do something that makes you happy while you're at it. Maybe eating pigeons is what some of us need....

The difference between the rich and poor doesn't have as much to do with income as you would think. The rich only spend what they make and the poor spend what they don't make.

I know way to many people who make alot of money but take out loans to go on vacations which leads to being poorer while someone who makes little but doesn't take out loans for things they don't need will end up richer

ViperScale wrote: The difference between the rich and poor doesn't have as much to do with income as you would think. The rich only spend what they make and the poor spend what they don't make. I know way to many people who make alot of money but take out loans to go on vacations which leads to being poorer while someone who makes little but doesn't take out loans for things they don't need will end up richer

Son, you will soon learn the ways of consumerist society brainwashes masses into the entitlement of this big "American Dream". Have you heard of "keeping up with the Joneses?"... I suppose not. In time you will stop feeling like a jerk for doing the right thing. Stay true to your values even when life rattles your up a bit. And don't forget to have fun while you're at it.

Jake Jones wrote:This is like, existential and shit.

I couldn't have said it better myself, Jake. You are a true wordsmith. :)

Adam Smith was talking about this before he was even talking about specialization and trade. In the Theory of Moral Sentiments he suggests that all pursuits are actually selfish, and that we can't decipher the difference between what is good for us and what is good for the community when we participate for the good of the community.

I left my good job at a great hospital to pursue a more creative life. The life of the artist, writer, etc. is not well-understood in today's productivity-driven world. Lot's of people thought I was selfish for doing what I did. They thought I should have stayed in a good job just because it's so hard to find good jobs these days. I was selfish because I was giving up what so many people would have loved to have. In the end, I essentially gave it to someone else. I'm a helluva lot happier today than I ever was. I don't have much money, but I'm a painter in the south of Brazil and my wife is freaking awesome.

I'd be selfish over and over again to have this.

I do agree with Larry S. There is no such thing as altruism. Even if you bring in religion people are still doing things because it makes them feel good, if it didn't make them feel good then why would they do? Because it's right? Well I know I feel bad when I do something wrong, so my reason for doing something that is right is because it makes me feel better than otherwise.

However, you have to realize that humans are social animals. Except for a few possibilities, you will always be surrounded by other people which makes their happiness significant for your happiness. So if you want to divide self-actualization and self-serving by their connotations then self-serving begins when you forget that if you harm others then they will harm you ('harm' is a very general term that can apply to a lot of things).

FrankPS's first post is something that more people should consider. What is the meaning of life is a question that is often scoffed at as being a pointless question (the '42' group), however it is indeed the most important question (loosely a quote but I forget who said it). As with any journey, the first thing you have to decide in order to get to where you want to be is to decide where you want to be, otherwise you may pass it or never even get there.

As for this discussion about wealth. "A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone." - Henry David Thoreau
To stick with Thoreau, I'll use his example. You might be proud of having bought a large beautiful house that shows how much money you have and what you can "afford," but now what? The thing most people don't think about is how much time you have to spend cleaning that large house. That takes up time you could spend doing other things that you would probably enjoy more, so can you really afford that large house? Wealth isn't about having money because money doesn't really exist (look at the growing acceptance of bitcoin), the wealthy are those that can afford to take the time to do nothing. Sometimes you need to just lay in the grass and relax, or chase loons on a pond.

Sorry for the long post, I came into the discussion late.

No more paycheck???

Go away Elleanor.

Appearantly, droning on 'n' on 'n' on about redonkulous exestential criseses on small, pointless, and hopelessly insular message boards is what makes us happy.

Doesn't ANYBODY wanna go climbing?!?

Oh-yah. I've gotta to work...

FrankPS wrote:This is all well and fine, but what is the meaning of life?

here