Anyone have experience with these bolt hangers???

Its really hard to imagine that spending 10-15 seconds(rather than "Scratching the hanger to hell") with some 220 or emery cloth is going to mess up the corrosion resistance any more than having a few thousand biners scratch and bang their way in and out of the hole(yeah I said it). I sand mine a bit before painting and I will stop if this is a big deal, maybe just a quick wipe down with alcohol is better prep for paint?

Since we got on the subject of China, how do you bolt scientist/experts feel about the use of 1/2" galvanized eye bolt glue-ins(countersunk in) that are being used a lot in this NE region?

MJMobes wrote:Its really hard to imagine that spending 10-15 seconds(rather than "Scratching the hanger to hell") with some 220 or emery cloth is going to mess up the corrosion resistance any more than having a few thousand biners scratch and bang their way in and out of the hole(yeah I said it). I sand mine a bit before painting and I will stop if this is a big deal, maybe just a quick wipe down with alcohol is better prep for paint? Since we got on the subject of China, how do you bolt scientist/experts feel about the use of 1/2" galvanized eye bolt glue-ins(countersunk in) that are being used a lot in this NE region?

Scratching a hanger with 220 grit is not a good idea if you are going to place the hanger on a sea cliff or in another type of high-corrosion area. Would it matter when bolting inland? Probably not. No one is going to die because you scratched the hanger, but speaking from a theoretical standpoint, a smooth and polished finish is typically superior to a rough and scratched finish, in terms of corrosion resistance. If you can get the paint to stick to the hanger without scratching it, I would go that route. If you absolutely cant, and you are not bolting in a high-corrosion area, I wouldent worry about it.

MJMobes wrote:Its really hard to imagine that spending 10-15 seconds(rather than "Scratching the hanger to hell") with some 220 or emery cloth is going to mess up the corrosion resistance any more than having a few thousand biners scratch and bang their way in and out of the hole(yeah I said it). I sand mine a bit before painting and I will stop if this is a big deal, maybe just a quick wipe down with alcohol is better prep for paint? Since we got on the subject of China, how do you bolt scientist/experts feel about the use of 1/2" galvanized eye bolt glue-ins(countersunk in) that are being used a lot in this NE region?

The damage to the corrosion resistance you do with a bit of sanding is nothing compared to the damage painting does so carry on.

Having never seen the particular bolts you are referring to nor been to the NE it´s hard to comment realistically! Galvanised hardwear leaches and kills the microbes which gives most rock it´s colour, the applalling meter-long white streaks below each bolt at a number of well known Euro crags are an indication that their use is a poor idea. The later red rust line down the white doesn´t help visually. In other areas they are no problem.
Who needs a photo topo?

Wow, that picture is messed up! There is no excuse for not using stainless hardware, especially in less than arid climates. On a separate note, I have been painting all of my hangers with Krylon Industrial Rust Tough enamel spray paint. It seems to be super durable if given at least 24 hours to set. No bling on my hangers!

Low visual impact bolting

Jim Titt wrote: The damage to the corrosion resistance you do with a bit of sanding is nothing compared to the damage painting does so carry on. Having never seen the particular bolts you are referring to nor been to the NE it´s hard to comment realistically! Galvanised hardwear leaches and kills the microbes which gives most rock it´s colour, the applalling meter-long white streaks below each bolt at a number of well known Euro crags are an indication that their use is a poor idea. The later red rust line down the white doesn´t help visually. In other areas they are no problem.

So paint is bad on stainless steel?

This is what people have been using, hot dipped not plated like you show-

uscargocontrol.com/Rigging-…

They are being used on schist, gneiss and basalt(not limestone) and I have not seen any streaks YET after a few years. I do occasionally use zinc strips on shingle roofs to stop moss from growing so that makes sense. I guess the only problem I see is that the hot dipped coating can chip/wear off from use and create sharp spots, then start rusting, swelling and going bad quick.

MJMobes wrote: This is what people have been using, hot dipped not plated like you show- uscargocontrol.com/Rigging-…

Mike,

Why not use stainless glue-ins instead? Cost? ($2 vs $6.)

Brian wrote: Mike, Why not use stainless glue-ins instead? Cost? ($2 vs $6.)

I've never sunk a hot dipped eye bolt but I think you know why they have been used though, routes in this region sometimes disappear quickly so spending a bunch of money for some kooks trophy case is not too high on the bucket list. Most of them can be replaced easily over time, at least the 3/8" ones can be.

Speaking of SS Brian, we should go add a bolt in the runout section at Feather ledges when the temps go above 35 degrees, I have been convinced.

MJMobes wrote: Since we got on the subject of China, how do you bolt scientist/experts feel about the use of 1/2" galvanized eye bolt glue-ins(countersunk in) that are being used a lot in this NE region?

Of course they're crap and will rot out in like 2-3 yrs cause they were made in CHiNa... Thats not to mention that they aren't even supposed to be cross loaded and thats all we do to those puppies! Hey I got a few still in the trunk kicking around if you wanna slam some in randomly along some famous trad climb. And Brian when I placed a few (and removed a few) they only cost $1.50 (plus glue $13). 90% cheaper then stainless @ retail which is $14, $6.50 price was special sale on only a single bolt/hanger combo.

In all honesty though, Spraug would probably be the best to talk to about those since they were kinda pioneered up at Rumney. I know they don't use them anymore if thats any consolation.

Jim Titt wrote:

Jim this is really a shame... rather then chop these bolts they should have been removed if they were glue ins. If they weren't glue-ins then you are probably confused in thinking they were hot dipped galvanized carbon steel eyebolts.

Morgan Patterson wrote: Of course they're crap and will rot out in like 2-3 yrs cause they were made in CHiNa... Thats not to mention that they aren't even supposed to be cross loaded and thats all we do to those puppies! Hey I got a few still in the trunk kicking around if you wanna slam some in randomly along some famous trad climb. And Brian when I placed a few (and removed a few) they only cost $1.50 (plus glue $13). 90% cheaper then stainless @ retail which is $14, $6.50 price was special sale on only a single bolt/hanger combo. In all honesty though, Spraug would probably be the best to talk to about those since they were kinda pioneered up at Rumney. I know they don't use them anymore if thats any consolation.

wave bolts 1/2" at 6 bucks
wavebolt.com/order/

I cant find prices on Jim Titts twisted ones but they are metric anyways so they wouldnt work too well in a 1/2" hole

MJMobes wrote: wave bolts 1/2" at 6 bucks wavebolt.com/order/ I cant find prices on Jim Titts twisted ones but they are metric anyways so they wouldnt work too well in a 1/2" hole

im done with those glueins for a while... too much of a PITA. I wanna bolt and climb same day.

Morgan Patterson wrote: Jim this is really a shame... rather then chop these bolts they should have been removed if they were glue ins. If they weren't glue-ins then you are probably confused in thinking they were hot dipped galvanized carbon steel eyebolts.

The bolts in the upper photo are in Croatia, courtesy of a well known manufacturer.
The ones in the lower photo are glue-ed in FFME bolts at Mt St Victoire in southern France which are hot-dipped forged steel bolts made for the French Federation. They were strongly supported by Helmut Microys as the solution to corrosion failures in tropical sea cliffs and nearly made it into the UIAA standard but others saw sense! (Helmut Microys was the AAC rep to the UIAA by the way).

Jim Titt wrote: They were strongly supported by Helmut Microys as the solution to corrosion failures in tropical sea cliffs and nearly made it into the UIAA standard but others saw sense! (Helmut Microys was the AAC rep to the UIAA by the way).

sounds like our own USDA and FDA!

Morgan Patterson wrote: im done with those glueins for a while... too much of a PITA. I wanna bolt and climb same day.

Jim's 12mm bolts worked fine in a 1/2in hole. The only downside was there wasn't an interference fit so they didn't work on overhanging stuff. 12mm SDS bits are much easier to find in the states these days so it's a bit of a moot point. Jim's swamped with Euro orders for his bolts so I'm not sure US availability is good right now. ClimbTech has taken over the Wave Bolts in the USA and it's a nice product as well.

If you use the right glue you can be climbing on your routes within the hour. I use Epcon A7 Glue and average time to cure is around 35minutes or so depending on temps. I wait an hour after gluing - a good time to clean up the gear and dust the route off again. Iv'e gotten to where I can bolt a vertical route with glue ins nearly as fast as I could with SS mech bolts. I take a bit more time per hole cleaning and then a bit more time being clean with my glue gun. Maybe 2 min per hole more max? No biggie for the quality improvement.

mattm wrote: Jim's 12mm bolts worked fine in a 1/2in hole. The only downside was there wasn't an interference fit so they didn't work on overhanging stuff. 12mm SDS bits are much easier to find in the states these days so it's a bit of a moot point. Jim's swamped with Euro orders for his bolts so I'm not sure US availability is good right now. ClimbTech has taken over the Wave Bolts in the USA and it's a nice product as well. If you use the right glue you can be climbing on your routes within the hour. I use Epcon A7 Glue and average time to cure is around 35minutes or so depending on temps. I wait an hour after gluing - a good time to clean up the gear and dust the route off again. Iv'e gotten to where I can bolt a vertical route with glue ins nearly as fast as I could with SS mech bolts. I take a bit more time per hole cleaning and then a bit more time being clean with my glue gun. Maybe 2 min per hole more max? No biggie for the quality improvement.

We´ve changed the bolts for the USA so they are an interference fit in a 1/2" hole, we still deliver direct to the states, sent some a couple of weeks ago to some guy who´s no doubt struggling at -30° now!
We glue to the top, rap down, clean up, change our shoes and climb the route. For most glues 15-20 mins is plenty of cure time.

Jim Titt wrote: We´ve changed the bolts for the USA so they are an interference fit in a 1/2" hole, we still deliver direct to the states, sent some a couple of weeks ago to some guy who´s no doubt struggling at -30° now! We glue to the top, rap down, clean up, change our shoes and climb the route. For most glues 15-20 mins is plenty of cure time.

price compared to wave? can you beat 6 bucks?

I still dont get your post about the paint- "The damage to the corrosion resistance you do with a bit of sanding is nothing compared to the damage painting does so carry on. "

Yeah, more on that please.

Good to know we can source your bolts in the US Jim and that the 1/2in fit change has been made. Good stuff.

RE: painting hangers, Jim posted elsewhere on the web the below quote. I've since stopped painting my hangers and opt for matte finish SS whenever possible. From what I gather, painting the hangers provides a surface under which moisture can remain and oxygen is excluded thus speeding corrosion.

"Crevice corrosion and it´s related problem of pitting are common in coated stainless steel products and really anyone using this sort of coated hanger is asking for trouble. In order to get good adhesion of the coating it is nescessary to destroy the oxide coating with some kind of etch primer, thus removing the stainless steel´s protective barrier. Once the coating is damaged the crevice corrosion can begin. "

I guess this explains why I never see a painted stainless steel boat.

Of course we are probably talking a miniscule amount of weakening on bolt hangers/glue in heads, at least I hope so since I've seen hundreds of them painted!