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set-up(s) for top-rope soloing?

NYClimber · · New York · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 85

Jake,
I have since purchased a Mini Traxion and have a Petzl ascender on the way as well. The Traxion looks like (as you suggested!)that it will be perfect for my backup rope and slide freely up the rope as suggested. I think this combo is going to work much better eliminating the need to constantly keep pulling the slack out of the GriGri - which I found to be a PITA when at difficult sections and crux's - thus requiring me to have to climb well below my skill level - and not being able to push the boundaries as much as I'd have liked to - having to have a hand free all the time to pull the slack rope up thru the GriGri - and - clipping/unclipping into backup knots every 8 ft was also a PITA as well.

I will let you know how your system works when I get to try it out - probably not for another week though. Work (duty) calls all week long!

J. Broussard · · CordryCorner · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 50

There's a lot of posts here. Didn't really ready many of them. Sorry :)
But I've had a lot of fun extending my ascendents away from my waist by running one sling off of my harness to another 2 slings (1 for each ascender). Essentially keeping the ascendenders 2 sling lengths away from my waist.

That enables my hips to move freely and uninhibited away from the line of the rope. Having your ascension device attached directly to your harness means the rope has to move with you side to side & that takes away from the joy of the movement.

NYClimber · · New York · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 85

Jeffeos,
Funny I thought about that for awhile now.

In my mind - and I could be wrong - but I don't really see roped soloing via 2 ascenders from a top rope much different than jugging on a big wall or cavers ascending a fixed rope via 2 ascenders as well. True - someone can argue that a fall while roped soloing would carry a little more 'energy' then climbing a fixed line - be it on a static rope or dynamic rope. However, my feeling is, if one has a 2 ft runner attached from their harness to each ascender - how much momemtum can one really pick up if they fell anyway? I ascender wouldnb't be any further 'out' from the harness than someone walking across a snow covered peak with ascenders on the rope in case of a fall into a cravasse - I would think.

I feel if a guy trusts 2 ascenders while jugging on El Cap - why would it be any diff using 2 for roped soloing froma fixed top rope?

J. Broussard · · CordryCorner · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 50

Hi Michael,

I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from. No surprise as I'm not the sharpest nut tool in the mountaineering shop.

But a couple of points that might clear up what I was trying to say:
Having your ascention device to your waist means the rope is always at your waist too. A lot of climbing involves side to side movement (right?) and having the rope always at your waist means the rope has to move with you. Which is fine if you like that sort of restricted feeling.

To your point about relating soloing with ascenders to jugging. There is no comparison. I use the slings to separate myself from the safety system so I can enjoy the movement of the climb. After every 2 to 4 moves I grab the ascenders (spell check thinks I'm spelling that wrong, doh well) and move them above me. Make a few more moves and repeat. Simple enough and a lot of fun.

A dynamic rope is a must in this situation.

It's likely we're talking about two different things. I just wanted to share what I thought was a great system for solo tr climbing. It's all about freedom to move freely (or something to that effect)!

Enjoy and be safe to the OP

NYClimber · · New York · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 85

Well true - sliding the ascenders up the rope loose on a sling isn't quite the same as jugging per se - in-that the sligs are taunt and you're relying on the ascenders for upward pregression....

Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349

Single Mini Traxion attached to chest harness & belay loop. Occassionally I tie a knot below to keep from decking or if a ledge threatens, etc...

Otherwise I don't complicate the situation by messing it up with more shit...

I used to use a "Soloist" which also worked fine.

slk · · Reno, NV · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 130
NYClimber · · New York · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 85

do you think just using the one device is enough without a backup in case of failure ?

NYClimber · · New York · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 85

Thanks...the 2nd link won't open...

NYClimber · · New York · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 85

OK< now it works! Thanks!

mitchy B · · nunya gotdamn business. · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 0

I used one device , Petzl Basic for a long time, with no trouble. Like Jake says, the rope is nice and tight and there is little to no slack and it catches immediately. I weight the trailing rope with my pack so it's sorta of tight. I've since switched to 2 mini traxions and i use the setup in the first link, the Gear institute link.

gary ohm · · Paso Robles · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 0

Do you guys use a static or dynamic for solo top roping? I've read statements and "arugments" both ways. It seems to me it might make more sense to have a dedicated static line just for soloing, that way any extra "abuse" from the mini trax teeth is better absorbed in the static line and won't damage your nice dymanic.

What are your thoughts either way?

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276
gary ohm wrote:Do you guys use a static or dynamic for solo top roping? I've read statements and "arugments" both ways. It seems to me it might make more sense to have a dedicated static line just for soloing, that way any extra "abuse" from the mini trax teeth is better absorbed in the static line and won't damage your nice dymanic. What are your thoughts either way?
Hey, Gary, I use my regular dynamic climbing rope, but only because I don't want to buy a static rope. The real risk to your rope is any sawing action from the line being fixed when TR soloing. So, if the terrain warrants, I will pad a sharp edge.

I would imagine a fall on a static rope would be a bit harder, more impact force, especially with a few inches of slack in the line. Even with the rope weighted, there is a good chance you'll have a little slack, even though the Minis feed quite well.
gary ohm · · Paso Robles · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 0

Hi Frank,
I was hoping you'd chime in. I have a dynamic rope to use as my dedicated solo rope. I also take stuff to pad any sharp edges. I was just thinking about how to make my system as bombproof and long lasting as possible.
The way I top rope solo there is really very little danger in a fall. I stay WAY below my limit. It's more a matter of doing laps upon laps.
Basically I'm relegated to 60 seconds, or if that's full and I'm feeling REALLY frisky I'll do Mouse Maze.

The advantage of being really out of shape is that I can't last too many laps. Anyone behind me won't have that long of a wait.

I appreciate the feedback, too, Jake. I'll stay with my dynamics.
THANKS!!

NYClimber · · New York · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 85

Thanks for the great info guys! I have read about the debate of dynamic versus static and agree with the above members as well. Static is OK if just rapping, jugging a fixed line - but any chance of a fall even if top roping - dynamic is the way to go. The forces on the body will be less as well as on the anchors, etc even if you feel a couple feet or so....

matt mcettrick · · durango · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 5
gary ohm · · Paso Robles · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 0

^This seems to be the typical set up. Though many people use the 2xmini-trax on the one line. Does anyone use a single minitrax on each of the two lines?? I don't, but the thought just struck me looking at the illustration above.

You'd be redundant on two different lines with two different pullys. I suppose you could back each of them up with another device, but boy that would make top-roping as cumbersome as aid climbing...

NYClimber · · New York · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 85
matt mcettrick wrote:
Matt yes I have seen that diagram - 'Mountaineering: Freedom of the Hills' book?

I tried that system as well and found it a PITA having to keep clipping in to those knots every 8-10 feet and unclipping the prior knot as well. Also, pulling the rope thru my GriGri 2 was a PITA as well, and required a free hand to do so - making it tricky IF one wanted to push the limits on a route and work laps big time.

I found that using a Petzl Ascension (or a Climb Tech) full size ascender on my waist connected to a chest harness with a Petzl Traxion device as a back up to work way better! Both hands are free to climb and the devices smoothly slide up the rope themselve with just a little weight tied onto my ropes at the botttom of the route.

Next I am looking at viable options for a ROPED SOLO LEAD climbing rig. Prob looking at using the GriGri for that and having to RAP down after each pitch from a single strand fixed rope to clean the pro - then re-climb the pitch again from the fixed rap rope.

Looking for any idea(s) or suggestions on how to best accomplish THAT endeavor. I'm looking to do this mostly for some slab climbs that I want to do....
david doucette · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 25

hi removed,

great post and i've followed your thought process and appreciate your insights. i'm an experienced climber and looking to do this in joshua tree. are you still using the ascenscion and traxion device? is this the setup you are using;

petzl.com/en/outdoor/self-b…

thanks, david

david doucette · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 25

@jake jones,

i like your system of using the ascendder as the primary and the minitrax as the backup on the second rope. it would seem to make the most sense as the teeth of the minitrax aren't really digging into your rope since it's the backup.

the petzel website shows using the micro trax as primary and backing up with the microcender when using two ropes;

petzl.com/en/outdoor/self-b…

i'm going to purchase the microcender as primary and micro trax as secondary and rig it like you did with the chest harness. for some reason petzel only shows the chest harness with both devices on a single rope; petzl.com/en/outdoor/self-b…

do you use any cross loading caribiners? i've seen the dmm mentioned on one of the websites mentioned or do you just use regular lockers?

thanks for any feedback jake that you might have.

david

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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