re bolting techniques
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i didn't intend to cause such a stir with this thread. n brown read my original post correctly, i seek information that will make my work more efficient. i don't seek approval. i read all the suggested material from asca and rock and ice long ago. i have, at least for my purposes, improved the knife blade/lost arrow/tuning fork combination with a single tool. i band sawed a hatchet head in thirds long ways and sawed the back through the handle knuckle. then i drilled a quarter inch hole through one side of the 'u' and fastened a cable through it. it is much more powerful that the pin combinations. my experience with them is that they were quickly distorted and broken. others seem to have had better luck. in spite of this i cannot pull the old bolts out more than 1/8-3/16ths of an inch. hack sawing through the bolt beneath the hanger then allows me to tap the old stud beneath the surface of the rock. it's as close to 'no trace' as i know how to work. better ideas? |
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First let me say thank you! |
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jeep gaskin wrote:if you are involved in replacing old bolts on multipitch routes i'd be interested in reading your chosen course of action. i've recently started going ground up, replacing as i go, with the second climber removing the old ones. i cobbled together a bag from old carpet scraps and hang it from a fifi hook on the new bolt and retrieve it with a short tag line when i reach the next bolt to be replaced. the bag holds the bosch, hammer, wrench, blow tube, bolts etc. and allows me to climb mostly unencumbered. obviously the tag line needs to be longer than the distance between bolts/gear but things seem to work okay. surely others have devised methods that might be more efficient than mine and can help short circuit the learning curve.That's a good method if you don't want to use the "standard" method of leading the whole pitch on the old bolts and hand drilling an anchor bolt (or trusting the old anchor enough to haul a power drill up), then fixing/rapping/hauling/whatever for the rest (whether power drilling or hand drilling). If you are carrying it with you on lead a light hand drill kit is just so easy compared to a heavy power drill. But your method is best for getting 1/2" bolts in if you don't want to hang from the old bolts to haul the power drill (since you have to be nuts to hand drill 1/2" in good granite...). Rusty 3/8" stud bolts are unlikely to be pulled cleanly except by core drilling - tuning forks won't be of much use. Most custom large tuning forks will bend all over the place on a 5/16" buttonhead, let alone a 3/8" stud bolt (which also tend to snap at the rock surface or base of the threads). The ASCA only has tuning forks for 1/4" bolt removal (although you can use those above the hanger on 3/8" Star-Dryvins since the nail is 1/4"). Jeep's method of pulling the 3/8" stud bolt out a bit, then hacksawing the bolt and tapping the remains back in is a great method. One trick for this is to bring some duct tape to protect the rock surface while hacksawing. I often would bring an old bolt core from a short 1/2" 5-piece to tap the stud back in. And even when bolts can be pulled cleanly, when you are on lead it's sometimes out of the question. I've replaced bolts in new holes when I knew for sure that the old bolt would pull. First time was a bolt 50' off the deck - first pro - and second time was at a bolt 110' out from the last pro (the belay, which was a few pitches up). And every once in a while it happens because you forgot the pulling gear but had the drill kit (which is why I have the bolt from Hobbit Book in Tuolumne even though Jerry Anderson replaced it by adding a new bolt right next to it a couple years previously). |
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jeep gaskin wrote: hack sawing through the bolt beneath the hanger then allows me to tap the old stud beneath the surface of the rock. it's as close to 'no trace' as i know how to work. better ideas?I've Rebolted lots of routes in my area and have perfected my rebolting technique. No need to hacksaw.Use the hammer that you need to install new bolts anyways... After removing the nut and the hanger, I simply hit one side of the stud with the hammer, then the other side with the hammer back and forth. It will break flush with the rock. After I put a bit of epoxy putty in the hole. Then I take a pebble and hammer it lightly into the putty. Some old bolts we've replaced here are now impossible to see. |
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Yeah, no shit. I'm having a hard time visualizing your creation. A super tuning fork would come in handy on occasion. |
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Salamanizer wrote: A super tuning fork would come in handy on occasion.Here's my super tuning fork. It used to be a splitting wedge. A drill press and band saw is all you need to make one. Super tuning fork. |
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nbrown wrote:Jeep, Would this be at Big Green? Either way, thanks for all your effort thus far. You mentioned that the old bolts are 3/8 inch, which I assume are probably wedge type and can usually only be chopped and patched. I have had minimal luck with prying these things out with a crowbar or yanking them with a funkness. I broke a hammer last year trying to yank a loose one out (I guess I should've used a cheap hammer). If they are self drives (I thought many of them at big green were) they can be removed with some luck. Tim F has a good set-up for this, plus the links above should cover it. Not sure if BB and Tim S removed and re-drilled or not. If you trust the bolts enough to finish the route and replace them on rappell, that would probably be slightly more effecient. However, at Laurel I believe that many of them were also done on lead because of the poor state of the old anchors. At the NF of Stone a few years ago we just lugged a bunch of rope in and rapped the face/and jumared out - didn't actually climb at all (it was winter anyway). I'd be happy to help out with some of your efforts, just let me know if and when. Plus, I have a bunch of extra "equipment" for it.http://mountainproject.com/v/using-a-hydraulic-punch-driver-as-a-stud-puller-/107519680#a_107566321 |
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Dom wrote: I've Rebolted lots of routes in my area and have perfected my rebolting technique. No need to hacksaw.Use the hammer that you need to install new bolts anyways... After removing the nut and the hanger, I simply hit one side of the stud with the hammer, then the other side with the hammer back and forth. It will break flush with the rock. After I put a bit of epoxy putty in the hole. Then I take a pebble and hammer it lightly into the putty. Some old bolts we've replaced here are now impossible to see.Another option is to get a grade 8 nut and washer with a long 1/2" or 3/4" driver (21" or so) and just keep tightening the bolt until the head breaks off. Its doable with 3/8" bolts, but it is pretty hard with 1/2" bolts. |