What do you use for a personal anchor?
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Im new to climbing and just starting to go outside on real rock. I see lots of people using either quick draws or a daisy chain to clip to the anchor. Is this safe or are there better options avalible? |
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TROLL ALERT. |
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Beware the daisy chain. They can be used safely, but often they are not. Make sure to get proper instruction before using these (or anything else for that matter). |
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I love the "just use the rope" comment people always post on here. What about for cleaning single pitch sport climbs? Or rappelling off a multipitch climb? Seems like "using the rope" would be a pain in the ass in those situations. |
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Daisy chains are for aid climbing. There are many types of personal anchors, but one thing is common to them. They are all (most) totally static systems, and are not meant for dynamic loading. Used properly (hanging on them or being under your anchor) they are all similarly secure. Then it just comes down to personal preference. |
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My recommendation would be to use a cordelette (length of 20-24 feet or so) tied from dynamic cord like bluewater or PMI(?) sells. |
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Yeah, I haven't been an MP member that long, but this subject gets regurgitated many times. |
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bkb0000 wrote:you still need to have a personal anchor.No you don't. I haven't used one in more than ten years. Eric Dorsey wrote:What about for cleaning single pitch sport climbs? Or rappelling off a multipitch climb?I don't use a PAS for either of those situations. You've always got quickdraws with you on multi-pitch rappels. Even when I'm sport climbing, I carry at least two extendable "trad" draws. You don't even need those if the anchor from which you're lowering will accept a bite of rope and you have a 'biner with you. Eric Dorsey wrote:I love the "just use the rope" comment people always post on here...Seems like "using the rope" would be a pain in the ass in those situations."I love" it when people knock certain methods without actually trying them. It "seems like" you should try "using the rope" before you knock it. --Marc |
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"Im new to climbing and just starting to go outside on real rock. I see lots of people using either quick draws or a daisy chain to clip to the anchor. Is this safe or are there better options avalible?" |
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The problem with these discussions is he word "anchor." Daisy chains are not something to be incorporated into any anchor due to the weakness of their loop stitchings. Many people use daisies to attach themselves into rappel anchors, to tie into the first piece of an anchor being built, and of course for aid climbing. |
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1. I use a pas i find it makes life easier for cleaning anchors and extending raps |
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This is what I use: |
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For multipitch rappelling, I use double shoulder length nylon sling (it canbe spectra or dyneema if managed appropriately) with an overhand on a bite tied at slightly less than half way. I then girth hitch this to my harness. Device goes on the overhand on bite. This achieves a tether system that allows for the device to be manipulated while the sling is loaded (a very steep stance) as opposed to the overhand midway on then sling. Plenty of directions to go with this thread, but there are plenty of places to seek out info. Try this link for starters- climbinglife.com/tech-tips/… |
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I usually throw a persian on the anchor. Once it grabs hold, it ain't letting go. It has a flat face allowing it to get closer to the wall than any other tie-in and offers you a place to stick your hands if they get a little chilly. |
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Mike, I think you might be looking for the word "Bight" as opposed to "Bite"... that said, doesn't this all pretty much come down to what someone is efficient and familiar with? I tried a Metolius PAS a while back, and had an issue with quickly finding the end loop- not a problem with my daisies or my slings. A friend just got a new one, though, and I see they've started making the end loop a different color. |
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Another issue: Spectra and Dyneema aren't good at absorbing high impact forces, because they have very little stretch. That's okay for quickdraws (because climbing ropes are quite elastic) but it can be fatal for anchor slings. Here's a Climbing Mag article on this topic ( climbing.com/print/techtips… ). A couple of quotes: |
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I use a Metolious PAS with 2 biners for hanging on anchors. That's it. I try never to leave slack in the system when I'm on the PAS because (as everyone has pointed out) it is not meant to catch a fall, even a 1 foot fall. |
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Of course, Bight was the word i was using. Anyhow, without diving into it too much, "when properly managed" there is nothing wrong with dyneema/spectra and it is important to be aware of the limitations of each material. |
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mike bromberg wrote:Of course, Bight was the word i was using. Anyhow, without diving into it too much, "when properly managed" there is nothing wrong with dyneema/spectra and it is important to be aware of the limitations of each material. That example from the grand cap is the classic misuse of a static sling. Climber climbs above anchor, then falls on said anchor, producing a fall factor of at or near "2". Strong case for using the rope as your tie in, as well as properly managing your tether. Daisy chains are inappropriate for use as a leash of any sort, regardless of material. It does come down to using a safe method that you are comfortable and efficient with.Most of these fears are a little overblown. Aid climbers frequently take daisy falls. Your body is squishy and soft, so it doesn't generate the fall force that the UIAA uses in their tests. Still not a good idea to fall on a static sling, but you won't really be able to generate a true factor 2 fall force on the anchor (your kidneys may disagree). Spot on about using the rope, if you are tied in to the rope, that is. |
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Anyone here ever taken a factor 1 or higher fall onto a personal anchor? I've never seen it happen and I know a lot of people who use slings, PAS, and daisies. |
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I lived in France in '09, and although the French have a bad record when it comes to safety (belaying with a figure 8, smoking while belaying, etc.) most French climbers would never anchor themselves on something static. So they all used this system which I have been using for the last 2 years (2 metres of dynamic 8mm double rope). It cost 5$ to make and is fully dynamic! If you want to extend it, use a regular sling. At least you'll have a dynamic component in your system. |