SOUTHERN ARIZONA CLIMBING ETIQUETTE - XXX - January-------Subtracting bolts (Chop Chop)
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SOUTHERN ARIZONA CLIMBING ETIQUETTE |
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"Barn burnt down, now I can see the moon."
I am going to stop the SACE series. A friend pointed out to me a few weeks ago that I may be doing more harm than good by virtue of the series. I was giving what he told me some serious thought---when the MP landlord intervened---so the issue got decided for me. It was not the administrators that pulled the plug. The landlord of the site was troubled over the threatening e-mail he was getting. I would have been troubled, too. I probably would have done the same thing. It is his web site. While censorship is never good, who wants to be threatened? Moreover, I like MP. I am grateful for it. I do not wish to be the cause of these problems. I had hoped after we got beyond the rough talk we could get on to discussing issues and making some strides forward. This recent topic was just too controversial. "Chopping" was next in order of the topics, but I should have waited until the Rockfellow situation blew over. I learned a great deal. I appreciate many of your wise and funny posts. I am grateful for whatever restraint you were able to muster. Climbers are just like people only more so---no better, no worse. I had naively thought differently. We cannot all just git along. Our own internecine war will always prevail over access. Access will need to take care of itself. I have new respect for the crew at the Access Fund. I hope you all will consider joining. Merry Christmas Scott Mc P.S. Thanks T-Dog for your post. It reminded me to sign off. |
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Scott: |
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Weak. I was following this flame-fest and learning a great deal about the very different ways that obviously thoughtful and intelligent people could view the same subject within the context of climbing. It was reinforcing my belief that the "keep our business out of public view" attitude that many climbers hold as sacrosanct (with many good reasons to back up that belief, i admit) ultimately leads to misunderstandings, backstabbing, and resentment. |
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Afraid? Nope. |
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Andy Laakmann wrote:I have zero patience for that kind of bullshit. If people want to call each other names, do it on someone else's watch and someone else's bill - not mine.I'm behind you 100% on that, Andy. I didn't read the thread in question, but as far as I'm concerned, anyone who posts something offensive can expect to see the content deleted without explanation. Mountain Project is where you go for civil and rational discussion of climbing topics. There's a time and a place for flaming other climbers -- it's called rockclimbing.com. JL |
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Andy Laakmann wrote: ...There is one rule on MP - don't be a jerk. That thread had looooong since past that threshold...Agreed. saxfiend wrote: ...Mountain Project is where you go for civil and rational discussion of climbing topics. There's a time and a place for flaming other climbers -- it's called rockclimbing.com. JLExactly. Guideline #1 is one of the great things about this site. Flaming, hate, & trolls have other sites to utilize. Those reasons are why I don't visit rc.com and rarely go to Supertopo. The gradual "rockclimbing.com-ification" of this site bothers myself and some others I have spoken with. If rc.com is what you want, then go there. As I said in my one contribution to the thread in question, it wasn't changing anyone's mind, and just seemed to make everyone involved (and SoAz climbers in general) look bad. I bet the folks at rc.com & supertopo (and boldering.com & the old rec.climbing) would love that thread. Maybe those who liked that thread should start up another one over there. |
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+1 to the Admin |
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Shiloh wrote:...the bitter old tired regret of an aging soul...Not that there's anything wrong with that. |
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Scott McNamara, |
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Well said Albert. |
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Let he who climbs chalkless cast the first stone. |
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I can't cast the first stone, Jbak, you've glued it on a new route! |
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Jimbo wrote:I can't cast the first stone, Jbak, you've glued it on a new route! P.S. You don't look a day over 60 to me.Not your best work Jim... but I appreciate the effort. |
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I'm winding up but can't find a target... |
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Sigh... |
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Geir Hundal wrote:I would like to apologize for my role in the decline of that thread. I originally intended on defending a few of my friends, but then allowed myself to become angry as the thread declined. Sadly, I am human and don't always think things through before I post. I will make my best efforts to present my concerns less abrasively in the future. Thanks Andy for getting rid of it. (Edit) Also thanks Scott M for your efforts with the series. Regards, GeirI saw the picture you posted. Not only did you not think before you posted you did not think before you acted. As a devout Christian I find you actions deplorable and shameful. There is nothing worse then someone who hides behind their faith as a cover for the actions they do. I am motivated to write in because the jihad is a muslim ideal and any Christian that aligns himself with these beliefs is insulting the Lord. As a Christian you should hold yourself to higher ideals then this. By representing yourself as a holy warrior executing violent acts in the name of God you show that you have forgotten what your entire faith is based on. You are equaling your power with God. God is the only person who can judge another. To the man who uses a holy symbol as his avatar for this site, you should not only know better but act better. God demands you worship none other then him and by dressing up and acting this way, you insult him. The jihad follow a God that is much different then ours. You should have been a better man then this. Treating others with love. Philippians 2:3-4 says, "Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others." I would not expect this from a fellow Christian. If the above quote is an attempt to apologize for your actions, I am ashamed. For you have lost much more then just a few abrasive threads, you have lost your way into something much darker. There are many tasteless jokes posted on this site but none that disgrace my faith and other Christians as much as your actions. You should spend a little more time in church then at the crag and review what your really are made of as a son of God. |
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Sounds kind of....mmmmmm.....judgmental..... to me. |
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The fact that he sent that message on the public forum instead of in private forces me to wonder about his own "selfish ambition and vain coceit". |
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I didn't realize christ had an opinion on chopping bolts. Shouldn't be surprised, I guess. Come to think of it, a run out is what turns a jug into a thank god hold. |
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I would like to apologize for my role in the decline of Geir. |