Just a Random Fly By

I know you may not believe me - and I might not believe it either had I not seen it myself, but it happened.

Tuesday June 22, I was at the upper saddle of the Grand Teton gearing up for the climb with my group of six, when we heard a huge roaring sound then from the East came an F-15 Airforce Jet. The jet was on a hard banking maneuver splitting the Grand and the Enclosure peaks.

So far, you may believe me, what you might not believe, and that is up to you is that the pilots maneuver was within 50 to 80 feet of the upper saddle tilted on his right side. As soon as he cleared the saddle he continued his role and descended down into the canyon - North of the Grand I think.

Four or five seconds and it was out of sight. My brother yelled out, "Wow, that was awesome, I don't even have to go to the top now, that just made my whole trip." And that it did.

We still went to the top, weathered out a thunderstorm with rain and ping-pong hail balls, clung to boulders just below the needle during the flash flood that followed.

Les Trois Teton

Cool, It sounds like a pilot trying to bring back the good old days of hot shotting. My doctor was a fighter pilot and he always tells me stories of how in the 60's and 70's they would buzz trains for fun.

If you're concerned, you can call the FAA. Military pilots have designated maneuver areas for doing low-level flybys. And for obvious reasons they are not supposed to buzz public landmarks.

It sounds like to me that boy's ego is writing checks his body can't cash.

Somebody had to say it...

At my hometown, hokey 4th of July parade- two F-15's did low fly-bys, while it happened I was like, wow that was cool and everyone at the parade was "hootin' & hollerin'", but after a bit I started thinking about it and decided that it was absolutely disgusting that we cheered for those jets, they have one purpose and one purpose only- to kill people. I can only imagine what it would feel like on the streets of Baghdad right now if two fighter jets flew right over your head, I'm sure I wouldn't be cheering.

Beagle wrote:At my hometown, hokey 4th of July parade- two F-15's did low fly-bys, while it happened I was like, wow that was cool and everyone at the parade was "hootin' & hollerin'", but after a bit I started thinking about it and decided that it was absolutely disgusting that we cheered for those jets, they have one purpose and one purpose only- to kill people. I can only imagine what it would feel like on the streets of Baghdad right now if two fighter jets flew right over your head, I'm sure I wouldn't be cheering.

Good point. I think we could all benefit from such introspection.

Years ago at the New River Gorge while climbing...we heard a similar sound, something large and loud...not quite a train...looked out over the gorge and just saw the top wing of some huge military plane cruising through the gorge. From where we were we couldn't see it go under the bridge but it was all the talk of the campground later as those with a good view point claimed he went under the bridge.

Beagle wrote:At my hometown, hokey 4th of July parade- two F-15's did low fly-bys, while it happened I was like, wow that was cool and everyone at the parade was "hootin' & hollerin'", but after a bit I started thinking about it and decided that it was absolutely disgusting that we cheered for those jets, they have one purpose and one purpose only- to kill people. I can only imagine what it would feel like on the streets of Baghdad right now if two fighter jets flew right over your head, I'm sure I wouldn't be cheering.

Without those jets and what they represent most of us would be dirt poor beggars oppressed buy whatever dictator decided to take control. I have been all over the world and can tell you this IS the greatest country. You should be proud that those pilots are willing to risk their lives to protect your sorry ass.

Beagle wrote:At my hometown, hokey 4th of July parade- two F-15's did low fly-bys, while it happened I was like, wow that was cool and everyone at the parade was "hootin' & hollerin'", but after a bit I started thinking about it and decided that it was absolutely disgusting that we cheered for those jets, they have one purpose and one purpose only- to kill people. I can only imagine what it would feel like on the streets of Baghdad right now if two fighter jets flew right over your head, I'm sure I wouldn't be cheering.

Hey Beagle:

I support your right to say what you want, even though I think you have a really shallow view of what those jets are doing. I gave up my civil rights when in the army for you to say what you want, but I think your comment is way over the top. Let me ask you, what have YOU DONE for your country? I doubt you've done very much at all. And I suppose my two star army general sister is a baby killer in your mind, too. Get stuffed.

Dave Pilot wrote:If you're concerned, you can call the FAA. Military pilots have designated maneuver areas for doing low-level flybys. And for obvious reasons they are not supposed to buzz public landmarks.

DID I SOUND CONCERNED !!!

IT WAS AMAZING AND BETTER THAN AN AIR-SHOW.

Let me put it this way: is it more exciting to see a dolphin do something cool at Sealife park or next to your boat on the ocean at random. This was better than an air-show.

We need our military and we need our weapons to defend our nation from existential threats. But the civilian leaders that put these weapons into action should always have Beagle's point in the forefront of their minds when making decisions.

Not So Famous Old Dude wrote:We need our military and we need our weapons to defend our nation from existential threats. But the civilian leaders that put these weapons into action should always have Beagle's point in the forefront of their minds when making decisions.

The military thinks about this as a matter of course. I would prefer our politians do also, and I'm sure that some do and some don't, but Beagle's statement is a gross over simplification by an individual who apparently hasn't been in the military. I will say this: those of you who haven't been in the military have no concept of that reality, nor of the mindset of the people in that position, nor of the sacrifices they make to give you the opportunity to think otherwise. Just remember this, they get to die first while you sit home and go climbing, visit the mall, drink a beer at the local watering hole, etc, etc, etc. Please think about that, too. How many of you have even walked up to a military type and ever thanked them for everything you have? NSFOD and Beagle, they defend your freedoms much more than you have ever done.

I was up on the last pitch of Pentapitch in LCC one morning when two f-16 jets flew slowly down the canyon. They were so close and so low that i could see the arms of the pilots on the controls. very cool.

Beagle wrote:At my hometown, hokey 4th of July parade- two F-15's did low fly-bys, while it happened I was like, wow that was cool and everyone at the parade was "hootin' & hollerin'", but after a bit I started thinking about it and decided that it was absolutely disgusting that we cheered for those jets, they have one purpose and one purpose only- to kill people. I can only imagine what it would feel like on the streets of Baghdad right now if two fighter jets flew right over your head, I'm sure I wouldn't be cheering.

Fly by's are cool.
and keep the point of view clear. If you were in Iraq with a few bombs strapped to you - ya may not like the jets. OR if they were part of a rescue mission to locate and recover you - happy sound.

I'm gonna stop there because this Forum and this could go on forever about what kills people and what doesn't.

Greg wrote: F-16's on training runs crash ALL the time around here in Phoenix (flying out of Luke AFB).

Greg,

I'm curious just how often is "ALL the time"? I also live near an air force base and I'm quite certain F16's don't crash here all the time.

William Dacier wrote: Hey Beagle: I support your right to say what you want, even though I think you have a really shallow view of what those jets are doing. I gave up my civil rights when in the army for you to say what you want, but I think your comment is way over the top. Let me ask you, what have YOU DONE for your country? I doubt you've done very much at all. And I suppose my two star army general sister is a baby killer in your mind, too. Get stuffed.

William Dacier wrote: The military thinks about this as a matter of course. I would prefer our politians do also, and I'm sure that some do and some don't, but Beagle's statement is a gross over simplification by an individual who apparently hasn't been in the military. I will say this: those of you who haven't been in the military have no concept of that reality, nor of the mindset of the people in that position, nor of the sacrifices they make to give you the opportunity to think otherwise. Just remember this, they get to die first while you sit home and go climbing, visit the mall, drink a beer at the local watering hole, etc, etc, etc. Please think about that, too. How many of you have even walked up to a military type and ever thanked them for everything you have? NSFOD and Beagle, they defend your freedoms much more than you have ever done

William,

I've listened to your perspectives in several threads now, and you've seemed balanced and, for the most part, objective. I have to say, however, that I am surprised at these two posts - especially the first one.

Your harsh judgment of beagle was not only presumptuous, but insulting and unfair. You presumed that he was denigrating pilots, when, what I got from his comment could easily have been an expression of disappointment with what is taking place in Iraq.

We are not there to defend this country, and it is ignorant and naive to think so. The history of oil procurement in that region is well documented for anyone who bothers to research the scholarship.

Our military is not always utilized for protecting this country. That is a foolish assertion. Frankly, your comment sounded more like something that I would expect from a jarhead. You said that Beagle has no background from which to qualify his position. How do you know that? What do you think of John Murtha's views on Iraq? Is he also not an authority on the subject?

I'm sticking to my post, my view is not "shallow" they are 'fighter jets' and have one purpose...TO KILL PEOPLE. I do not think of any U.S. Soldiers as baby killers, the politicians that send them are the baby killers. Ozzy really says it best-
"Politicians hide themselves away... They only started the war... Why should they go out to fight?... They leave that role to the poor"

And, my step father is an officer in the Air Force and Brother had just returned from a tour in Iraq when I saw those jets fly-by.

Also, I've done a lot for my country- I pay taxes (can you say 1040-SE), I vote, I volunteer, I drive a car that gets over 40mpg, I went to college, started my own business...

So, you can derilicte my Balls El Capitan!

Ken:

Beagle painted with an awfully broad brush, and by implication stated that all the military is good for is killing innocents. Surely you can see that. Personlly I think Murtha is a dirt bag, and for the most part the majority of Marines he accused of murder have been exonerated. You can check that out. He's never once apologized to any of them although he surely tried and convicted them in the media. Sure the military has been used for less than honorable purposes in the past, and perhaps even now, but Beagle stated the only purpose of those jets was for killing people. That just rubs me the wrong way. With regards to Beagle, I made an assumption there, but I bet it is true, nevertheless. You'll notice I never had a problem with him writing it, just the overly broad implication that he made. I hope that clarifies where I'm coming from.

I pay taxes (can you say 1040-SE), I vote, I volunteer, I drive a car that gets over 40mpg, I went to college, started my own business... So, you can derilicte my Balls El Capitan!

I'm so utterly impressed with your service to country there Beagle. Thanks for stepping up!

William Dacier wrote:Ken: Beagle painted with an awfully broad brush, and by implication stated that all the military is good for is killing innocents. Surely you can see that. Personlly I think Murtha is a dirt bag, and for the most part the majority of Marines he accused of murder have been exonerated. You can check that out. He's never once apologized to any of them although he surely tried and convicted them in the media. Sure the military has been used for less than honorable purposes in the past, and perhaps even now, but Beagle stated the only purpose of those jets was for killing people. That just rubs me the wrong way. With regards to Beagle, I made an assumption there, but I bet it is true, nevertheless. You'll notice I never had a problem with him writing it, just the overly broad implication that he made. I hope that clarifies where I'm coming from.

The only purpose for those jets is to kill people, other aircraft, buildings, vehicles, and anything in the path of their ammunition. What part of that doesn't make sense to you? You are obviously too attached to this to be objective. That is apparent.

And let me ask you this, William: Who exonerated those marines - the Bush administration? You call Murtha a scumbag, but I would bet my left nut that his record of service supersedes most of the people who make such remarks. How does your military resume stand up to his? Moreover, have you spent several days per week at Bethesda helping downed soldiers with psychological recovery? And what about guys like Batiste and Eaton? Are they also scumbags?

If Beagle is painting with a broad brush, then you are spraying with a fire hose.

Ken:

I'm not objective on this issue, to be way up front. Exoneration by military court system, where they were being prosecuted. Murtha's a politician, and I don't trust any of them, be it Republican or Democratic.