[Hide Comment] Looks like a great addition of moderates. Jan 12, 2014

[Hide Comment] Great addition to bypass crowds at hamlet and panty wall. The grades seem about right although the three bolted routes on the right may feel harder because of the slab starts. Don't forget your gear for tea-cups if your not comfortable on 5.7 potential decking terrain or a new leader. This wall has been cleaned up really well not much loose stuff on it. Jan 18, 2014

[Hide Comment] I'd generally agree with Mostafa. Though I broke a hold off a couple days ago, it makes the move on that route only very slightly harder. I think 3rd line from the left. Overall rock quality seems about same as Hamlet. Easy to set top ropes on if you are not comfortable leading

The rightmost routes have a more difficult slabby start and lichen still abounds. I was surprised to see evidence of what looks like chipping on one of the right-side routes...????

Placements look OK. Thanks for using Mussy Hooks. I wish 1/2" bolts had been used for belay anchors. If this area begins to get the attention it deserves the anchor placements could get loose. Jan 30, 2014

[Hide Comment]


You are so busted whoever left this. LOL.....:o) Jan 30, 2014

[Hide Comment] Good addition. Decent routes, well equipped and well camo'd, surprisingly clean. A good "first day outside" beginners crag.

#8 BD stopper for Demon Drop and .5 BD Camelot for Tilt A Whirl. You can also use that .5 Camelot on the top of Roller Coaster. 5.7 felt about right for most. Roller Coaster was definitely harder (and sandy) at the bottom. REALLY clean routes to be this new. Feb 16, 2014

[Hide Comment] So missy hooks made in China. Since when does china rate anything Apr 28, 2014

[Hide Comment] You know most of your climbing gear is made in China too....right?
Those mussys could be wayyyyy under their ntended rating and still be wayyyy stronger than needed for the forces they will see from lowering/rapping.

Those mussys are fine and a great option for this cliff.

Of course, you could always chip in and replace them with some finely made Draco lower-offs from Fixe. I'm sure Dan would not mind.

fixehardware.com/shop/ancho… fixehardware.com/shop/ancho… Apr 29, 2014

[Hide Comment] i dont know where your buying your gear from but nothing i own is made in china as they dont have any standards governing their products hence the cheap price.The part that scares me is they are outside in the elements.
as for the hooks here your probally right but my life is a little more important than saving a couple bucks which i do not know dan but yes i would have chipped in.
www.fda.gov/forconsumer May 3, 2014

[Hide Comment] Black Diamond Equipment Asia located in Zhuhai, China produces many of the company’s products.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black… en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black…

Also true for many other manufacturer's May 4, 2014

[Hide Comment] Boys I'm not trying to get into a pissing match (ha). For those that know me
John we know the same people and I know your work (setting and taking care of routes out there)
Being a rigger here in town and having steel knowledge I'm just surprised to see made in China.Now that being said BD has factory's in China, their equipment is made there but under their guidelines BD has strict guidelines that's why we all (most) but BD. I just found it funny to see a hook (first one) mind you that had made in China on it. If I come across a shackle with made in China it goes right in the garbage. Worried no I still clipped in and lowered off. May 5, 2014

[Hide Comment] And just to add. I will bring newbies here also my 6 yr old and will use the hooks to lower. I love this wall for getting people aquatinted to climbing. Glad someone out there is thinking about beginner climbers May 5, 2014

[Hide Comment] James,

No peeing match intended. Sorry if it sounded that way (tone is a hard thing to communicate or hear on the interwebs).

I was just defending Dan's work here. I agree it is a nice beginner crag, and he used good gear to equip it. (Ok, I am fan of stainless, but you can't convince most people that it matters in the desert. So, I get it.) After playing around with a variety of anchor options, I now prefer mussy's in most single pitch scenarios. When I get time to revisit some of my older routes, I will be re-equipping them with mussys.

Every mussy I have found is made in China (or is not labeled...so, likely made in China). They all seem more than adequate for a 2-point lowering anchor. They have the advantage of being clippable for easy/safe/fast "cleaning" and they are easily replaced.

I get scared easily...but I can't imagine 2 mussys (lacking obvious flaws) failing in a lowering scenario. May 5, 2014

[Hide Comment] Dnob
The same to you. That's why I hate reading. Can't hear my voice.
I like what you just said. Mussy is great. Not making fun of dan(who I don't know)
I have a good shall we say. Example for you. About china made
Would you rap off a quick link you bought from Home Depot? They do have a rating on them
My answer is hell no. I'll go to silver state wire and rope and buy American made and a few dollars more rated ones. Matter of fact. France makes good ones too.
Am I being anal. .??? I guess like john mentioned. They are good enough. Plus (most important)
There are enough of us to keep and eye on this stuff to make sure it stays safe. I am capt safe. Sometimes too safe.
But. That being said. Keep an eye on and I will say. Don't trust (especially your life) to anything that has a "made in China" on it
Thank you. I have spoken. (Said smart ass ly). May 7, 2014

[Hide Comment] Working Load Limits (WLL) is the load that a piece of equipment can safely utilize to lift, suspend, or lower a mass without fear of breaking. WLL is the maximum working load designed by the manufacturer. This load represents a force that is much less than that required to make the equipment fail.

Working Load Limits (WLL) for the hardware used:
Chain: 2,650 lbs X 2 = 5,300 lbs
Quick link: 1,540 lbs X 2 = 3,080 lbs
Hooks: 2,500 lbs X 2 = 5,000 lbs

A quick search for top rope loads on an anchor as tested by Rock & Ice:
The Fall Scenario
To determine how a lazy belay affects the loads on an anchor, we staged two series of test falls and measured the maximum impact forces. In the first series, a 200-pound climber fell near the anchors of a taut pulley-style toprope. In the second series, using the same pulley-style setup, the same climber fell with four feet of slack in the rope—a common scenario if the belayer’s attention has lapsed for a moment. For consistency, both tests were performed with 35.5 feet of rope between the climber and the belayer, and the belay was virtually static. (We used a belay device clipped directly to a belay bolt—certainly not a recommended use of the device nor a good belay style because it doesn’t allow for dynamic load absorption, but one that allowed us to remove most of the variables from the belay setup.)

The Results
First Series: a standard pulley-style toprope fall with virtually no slack in the rope. The details: 200-pound climber, static belay, 35.5 feet of rope in the system. Forces were measured at the toprope anchor.
Fall 1: 800 pounds load on the anchor.
Fall 2: 750 pounds load.
Fall 3: 700 pounds load.
Second Series (the lazy belay): same details as the first series, but a pulley-style toprope fall with four feet of slack.
Fall 1: 1,300 pounds load on the anchor.
Fall 2: 1,550 pounds load.
Fall 3: 1,500 pounds load.

Clearly the hardware used far exceeds the maximum forces possible.

Dan Jun 2, 2014

[Hide Comment] Went here today hoping to find some shade. Although this wall does face north, it was in full sun the entire time we were there (9:30 to 12:30) on June 1. It would probably go into the shade mid-afternoon. Still managed to hit 7 of the lines before our shoes melted onto our feet. Thanks, Dan for putting these routes up. It is a good area for beginners.

Kelly Jun 2, 2014

[Hide Comment] Dan, relax. You're not using stainless anyway, all that Chinese junk just ices the fringe cause yer so damn frosty....

Ball busting, sir. When our mutual friend gets back in town we gotta get out and check out some new lines. Wu-Tang Mussies ain't nuttin ta fuck wit! Jun 3, 2014

[Hide Comment] The problem with Home Depot grade “made in China” hardware is the lack of a stamp from a reputable manufacturer. Equipment stamped with Black Diamond, Maillon Rapide, Petzl, etc indicates that those companies stand behind their gear with elaborate and well known testing procedures. Because they are susceptible to lawsuits, they perform the due diligence required to bring life safety equipment to market. They publish working load limits and, just as importantly, design factors. The typical hook or link from Home Depot has no manufacturer stamp - just the “made in China” mark. When no company is at risk of a lawsuit, the faceless equipment manufacturer has nothing at stake to incentivize quality control. By not publishing design factors, the working load limit stamp cannot be interpreted correctly. The fact is that users of rigging supplies from the local hardware store are clearly instructed that this equipment is “not for overhead lifting”. Anyone arguing that it is safe to use a “made in China” hook that lacks a mark from a reputable manufacturer does not know what he is talking about. Jun 4, 2014

[Hide Comment] John,

I generally agree with your commentary. I am a big proponent of high quality fixed gear. Stainless and good brands (Powers, Hilti, Fixe). For lowering mussys, given the general overkill beefiness and redundancy of the equipment for the given application (not to mention the lack of permanency)...I tend to disagree that they are inadequate.

However, everyone should make their own risk management decisions. For me, despite being a chicken on such things...I feel totally safe lowering off of mussys (which are all "generic"). Most of the mussys I install are branded by Dayton...but they are still from China. Jun 5, 2014

[Hide Comment] Anyone arguing that it is unsafe to use a “made in China” hook bc it lacks a mark from a reputable manufacturer does not know what he is talking about.

Just busting your balls John ;-) I don't care if you trust them or don't trust them. If there is someone out there that wants to buy their preferred anchors for me to install I'm all for it. Paypal me at djyoung1110@yahoo.com.
Jun 6, 2014

[Hide Comment] Jen and I climbed most of the routes today. Lots of fun. Some interesting moves available. Great place to be out of the wind. Very nice work Dan, and we were not at all concerned about the hooks! May 8, 2015

[Hide Comment] As a new leader, this was a great little crag tucked away from some of the more popular areas. I think the uniform grades for all of the routes are pretty fair. Left side was a tad easier, because the starts on the right can be tricky. Jan 11, 2021

[Hide Comment] The right bolt on the second anchor from the left is very loose, you could literally unscrew it with your hands if you wanted to. Feb 6, 2022