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You bolted my route!
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By Mike Carrington
From Centenntial
Aug 23, 2010
Stemming up the chimney

So my friend put top anchors on a route and when he returned the next weekend the whole route had been bolted by someone else. Any thoughts?


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By Tparis
From Pottersville,New York
Aug 23, 2010
fall foliage 5.7+ slab

sucks to be him.

imagine the new routers surprise to arrive at the top of his new route to find an anchor already in place.


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By Phil Lauffen
From The Bubble
Aug 23, 2010
RMNP skiing. Photo by Nodin de Saillan

Tparis wrote:
sucks to be him. imagine the new routers surprise to arrive at the top of his new route to find an anchor already in place.


huh? I doubt it was bolted on lead. He probably rapped in from the pre-installed anchors.

A dbag move for sure.


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By Fielding Phillips
From Sheridan, wy
Aug 23, 2010

Ya, "unbolt" the route. If its a trad climb, why put bolts into the rocks?


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By Jon Ruland
From Tucson, AZ
Aug 23, 2010
sending Hard Day at the Orifice

it's possible the other guy had been eying it for a while and decided to make his move when he saw that someone else had already put in anchors. whatever the reason, i guess it just proves that it's a good idea to finish bolting a route the same day if you can.

i have to agree with phil; it does seem like kind of a dbag move. it seems like if someone has already started bolting the route then you've missed your chance and should move on, not pounce on it and finish the job and call it your work. please post here if you find out why the bolter thought he was justified to do this. i'm reserving judgment until then.


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By Dan G0D5H411
From Colorado Springs, CO
Aug 23, 2010
Dan on Hurricane

Sorry to hear about your friend's bad luck. No matter what the circumstances, it is your friend's decision to react or not. I think the community would understand him chopping the bolts if he intended it to be a trad climb. If he intended it to be a sport route, it may be cathardic to chop and rebolt but the resulting damage is probably not worth it. Take a few days to cool off, think about it and then make any decisions.
From a preventative perspective, there's not much you can do other than bolt the whole climb in one session, only set routes with heinous methods of getting to the anchor, or train a monkey to shoot poachers (make sure the monkey can distinguish you from other people though.....)


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By Mike Carrington
From Centenntial
Aug 23, 2010
Stemming up the chimney

Mystery solved. The top anchors used were old recycled cold shuts. When the second person came along they could not see any evidence of recent activity so they went ahead with the line. Interesting situation. Nothing was ever said about a trad line so I don't know where that came from.


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By caughtinside
From Oakland CA
Aug 23, 2010

This unchecked aggression will not stand, man!


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By Red
From Arizona
Aug 23, 2010
Cobra Kai

Sounds like less work for your buddy. Now he doesn't have to spend time and money bolting the line. Climb it and move on.


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By Crag Dweller
From New York, NY
Aug 23, 2010
My navigator keeps me from getting lost

this is an interesting and, i'm guessing, unique scenario to consider as far as bolting ethics go.

what if you come across an anchor placed above a line you'd been planning to bolt? should you follow through on what you'd already planned to do? or, are you now bolting someone else's line?

should you place an anchor and nothing else and expect others to leave the line alone so that you can finish what you started? or, should you at least establish part of the route itself if you want others to leave it alone until you can finish?

this seems like a gray area to me.


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By Woodchuck ATC
Aug 23, 2010
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008

Leave a 'date placed' placard on the anchors to claim your efforts? I say just do the route and take credit for the first ascent since you laid down the first bolts.


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Aug 23, 2010
Bocan

Mike Carrington wrote:
Mystery solved. The top anchors used were old recycled cold shuts.


What does everyone think about this? I've read so much negative info about cold shuts in general, why would you want to recycle them?


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By Adub
Aug 23, 2010

Just go chip out some gnarly new holds with a rock hammer. Whoever bolted it will surely be pissed someone chipped his route. Chances are he will post on here about it. Then the mystery is solved!


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By M Sprague
Administrator
From New England
Aug 23, 2010
Lichen head. Me, with my usual weatherbeaten, lichen covered look from scrubbing a new route.

Scott McMahon wrote:
What does everyone think about this? I've read so much negative info about cold shuts in general, why would you want to recycle them?

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe it was a good thing the other person finished the job.


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By Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Aug 23, 2010
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Peak.

Just leave a tremendous dump at the base of the route with a red flag to denote the "unfinished" nature of the line.

You can bet your ass I would have respected that when I was bolting routes in the Pecos. Yeah, buddy.


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By Monty
From Golden, CO
Aug 23, 2010
Just a teaser

So where'd this happen anyway?


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By 1Eric Rhicard
Aug 23, 2010
It is a good sized roof. Photo: Jimbo

Mega classic I would be bummed. Just another run of the mill sport climb, congratulate the person and go find another one or something better. Oh, and get a set of anchors from him.


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By Tom Hanson
Aug 23, 2010
Climber Drawing

I am the "my Friend" that my buddy, Mike, referred to in the initial post.

My pal Mike (a different Mike) and I reconned and trad lead to the top of a new formation two weekends ago to set top anchors for, and work out the moves of, a new potential sport route we had spotted at The Head.

After rigging the tr anchors and tr'ing the line, it was days end so we went home.
We returned two weeks later to find the line I'd been daydreaming about for two weeks bolted.

The experience really let the wind out of my sails. I've been putting in routes at The Head for about twenty years and this is the first time someone had zuked me out of a route.

Red said: "Sounds like less work for your buddy(me). Now he doesn't have to spend time and money bolting the line. Climb it and move on"

I like Red's way of looking at this, but I still can't shake the diappointment.


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By jack roberts
Aug 23, 2010

Well that's a bummer but unless the party who is intending to bolt the rock and make the FA leaves some indication besides the anchors that they intend to return and bolt the fine, well it's fair game.

What is more common is that the party that spots the line, works the moves and places the anchors, they also put in the first bolt and place a red tag on the hanger indicating that this is a project in progress. Anything else remains gray...........Too bad. Disappointing for sure. Go forth young fellow and seek other FAs.


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By Bruce Hildenbrand
Aug 23, 2010

Years ago I was climbing with a friend near Checkerboard Rock in Estes Park. We spotted a newly bolted line that wasn't in any guidebook and decided to climb it. After three bolts and a pin in the first 60'(about 5.10c) the route pulled over onto a slab which led to the top. It was another 60' of climbing to the top and about 5.8, but there was no pro and I was facing a long groundfall near the top.

As my partner was seconding the climb a party of three came up and informed us that they were in the process of putting up the route(ground up) and had come up to add bolts to the 5.8 slab. It turns out that my partner and I had done the first ascent.

The group of climbers asked if it would be OK if they added bolts to the slab and I said it would be OK as long as they gave me and my partner credit for the FA.

To make a long story a bit shorter, they added the bolts, but didn't give us the credit for the FA. Luckily, Bernard Gillette knows how the game is played and it will be corrected in the next edition of his guidebook.

Bruce


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By Old and Busted
From Centennial, CO
Aug 23, 2010
Stabby

The other gentleman involved is a good guy with whom I've exchanged pm's through the years. He is very contrite about this. He offered up "Gift From Above" (.12A) as a route name, which I thought was OK.

Coldshuts are OK, but not great, as top anchors. The knock on them is that they wear out with rope abrasion. These were left over from some anchor replacement initiative work we did in Castlewood last Winter, they looked old but had no wear. I use them as disposable rap anchors when checking out a wall for the first time. If the wall is worth working, I'll replace with my normal rig of hangers/quick links and chain.
Its a good route with 2 different starts, ours and his; about 30' apart. They converge 30 feet up at the business, which stays sustained at .11+ for 40'.
The main reason Tom and I didn't get it done on day 1 was that we thrashed around for a couple hours (there's quite a bit of stone over there, including some good looking trad lines), spent some time tradding up to the top, worked it on a tr, and then got solared out as it faces west. Since this is yet another new part of the mountain and few know how to get there, we did not feel the sense of urgency like you would at a more accessible crag.
All in all, its just a shit happens kind of thing. I just wanted to intercede here before the other guy gets further trashed. Besides, we are still talking about a nefarious activity here anyway.


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By Greg D
From Here
Aug 24, 2010
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W. <br />

Mike Carrington wrote:
Mystery solved. The top anchors used were old recycled cold shuts.


Umm. That's weird. Recycled cold shuts for a new route?


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By Tparis
From Pottersville,New York
Aug 24, 2010
fall foliage 5.7+ slab

Mike Lane wrote:
The other gentleman involved is a good guy with whom I've exchanged pm's through the years. He is very contrite about this. He offered up "Gift From Above" (.12A) as a route name, which I thought was OK. Coldshuts are OK, but not great, as top anchors. The knock on them is that they wear out with rope abrasion. These were left over from some anchor replacement initiative work we did in Castlewood last Winter, they looked old but had no wear. I use them as disposable rap anchors when checking out a wall for the first time. If the wall is worth working, I'll replace with my normal rig of hangers/quick links and chain. Its a good route with 2 different starts, ours and his; about 30' apart. They converge 30 feet up at the business, which stays sustained at .11+ for 40'. The main reason Tom and I didn't get it done on day 1 was that we thrashed around for a couple hours (there's quite a bit of stone over there, including some good looking trad lines), spent some time tradding up to the top, worked it on a tr, and then got solared out as it faces west. Since this is yet another new part of the mountain and few know how to get there, we did not feel the sense of urgency like you would at a more accessible crag. All in all, its just a shit happens kind of thing. I just wanted to intercede here before the other guy gets further trashed. Besides, we are still talking about a nefarious activity here anyway.

Mike, it sounds to me like if your start is 30' away and doesn't join the other until 30' up, then you could climb it as a seperate route or a variation at least?


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By Old and Busted
From Centennial, CO
Aug 24, 2010
Stabby

It is definitely a viable variation. Both versions have 4-5 clips and distinctly different climbing. Not worth a 2nd name though. Plus, I should note that we typically do not publicize the FA at Devils Head because 1) who cares? and 2) removes any incentive for going crazy looking for personal notoriety.
Instead, we go crazy anyway b/c the rock is so good there.
Of course, a proud FA of a trad line will get noted, and its up to the developer if he wants to post his accomplishment if its a sport route, ie: a mega classic or really impressive send.

At .12A, to me this is a project that all my friends will send before I do -if ever, I'm kinda tubby now and just don't climb consistently enough. So in a way its kind of a relief that it has been sent already.
I have also had a rough Summer overall, my unacknowleged route building in general has become a negative experience. This episode served as the final straw to stow the drill away indefinitely; which may be moral of this whole sordid affair anyway.



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By Corey Morris
From Fort Hood, TX
Aug 24, 2010

Bruce Hildenbrand wrote:
It turns out that my partner and I had done the first ascent. The group of climbers asked if it would be OK if they added bolts to the slab and I said it would be OK as long as they gave me and my partner credit for the FA. To make a long story a bit shorter, they added the bolts, but didn't give us the credit for the FA. Luckily, Bernard Gillette knows how the game is played and it will be corrected in the next edition of his guidebook. Bruce



Lame...Bruce you wouldn't have ever been on that route had the hardware not been there...ur a hero for "putting" up that 10c. I guess that's how you play the "game."


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