Yosemite Trash - where'd it come from??

so...just had a chance to get a week in the valley. we were blessed with great weather, good fortune, and some great granite climbing. I haven't been there in 7 years, and it was awsome to be able to re-connect with this great American mecca. What a wonderful place, and i can't wait to go back.

we were there a couple weeks ago, when the "facelift" was going on, which makes this topic especially relavent.

So we had an opportunity to get on half dome (thank you to all who helped out with beta from another thread) and actually pulled off my first sucessfull wall climb. anyways, we got a permit to be out there, and even before getting to the base, the ranger was telling us about the rogue bear, and all the people trash up there, etc. -

when we got there, indeed there was lots of trash. However, seems like if 3-4 people were up there just to remove trash, the base could be spic and span.

Also, we were surprised by the amount of international versus american climbers there. we met teams from Spain, Mexico, England, Sylvania (spelling?), French, German, Russian, japanese, south afrians, and probably others that i can't remember.

I was mostly proud to see so many international people there, travelling so far to have a taste of california goods. I also very much enjoyed conversing, partying, and interacting with the internationals. when we actually were at the base and on half dome, of the 10 or so other parties we saw, there was only one other american team, who failed miserably and ended up jugging our line up pitch one, and then aiding 20 or so feet of pitch two, before realizing how over their heads they were, and bailing.

So...the very long winded point i'm getting to is this. After seeing so many internationals there, and also seeing so much trash at the base, which was/is so uncharacteristic to me from my experience of other american climbing/cragging areas, i can't help but wonder if the presence of teh trash is somehow related to the occurance/presence of the international community?

Of course i realize (as well as all other rational people) that one can't generalize 100%, and of course there are people who litter that are americans, and people who litter that are non...and the same holds true for people who don't litter.

But the question remains: Are climbers displaying this littering behavior simply because they are on a "wall", and therefore feel justified that because they are going beyond a typical cragging route that it is then OK to litter, or is it possible that the littering has something to do with cultural differences, and the presence of so many internationals??

I'll also add that i'm not a huge tree-hugger, and in my youth, have had times where i also have littered myself (that i am regrettful and try to make up for now). Like most of you, i love to climb, i love the outdoors, i love the rock in yosemite, the easy access to the climbs, the conveinence of having a climbing shop/pizza place/showers/laundry right in the park, and as i said above, i love the international community, and i especailly enjoy hanging out wiht them.

we packed some of the trash out, which we came to find out was also covered in shit, as some climber(s) must have decided that a pile of trash was a good place to shit at. this of course sucked, and made me more angry and curious at the cause of this trash.

i am also wondering if just a sign might do great work towards keeping it cleaner. maybe right at the base of the death slabs, and also on the trail..."please pack your trash out"...kind of a thing.

so...that is my question. I am thinking that some valley locals might have some good insight on this. Trash due to lazy climbers regardless of national affiliation, or trash possibly due to internationals, not understanding an american ideal of a trash free base?

Finally, hopefully to deflect anyone's idea that this pondering of mine is based from racism or jingoism, i'll add that in my very limited international travels to asia, i saw many beautiful pristine places, but also saw many places that were very littered. Seems to me that in asia, there is a trash problem, as i assume there is limited space for landfills, so they either recycle or burn, and therefore don't have a great public trash collection/disposal system. never been to europe, so can't speak to that. my father is from asia, and i am a first generation american on my dad's side. so...i have extra sympathy towards foreingers in america, but still can't help but ponder this question.

Maybe another relavant question would be "have you found that international climbing destinations are more trashy/littered than american ones?"

Just thought i'd see what some other people who had more experience in the valley and out of the country thought about this topic?

I had the pleasure of going to Yosemite with Steve. Kick ass trip. I also had the unfortunate pleasure of being the one who picked up trash with shit on it. Funny in hind sight. Especially thinking about when I asked is this shit then of course sniffed it to find out. In my defense I did just get off half dome so my dirt bag persona was in full force.......

so the question remains is there more trash due to the international presence?

On another note the British climbers up there also packed out trash two days before when they came to stash water up at the base...

Don't know about the international community, but here in AZ most climbing venues seem very trash free. Other places (popular canyons with water) have plenty of trash. I always carry an extra trash bag to do some clean up on the way out. I see lots of so-called lovers of the outdoors that couldn't be bothered to pick up one stinking item of trash (not referring to climbers here at all), as I've run a test on some people I know: I placed some empty beer cans right along the trail which were easily visible to all ( my wife and I intended to pick them up when we came out) and none of these people could be bothered to pick up any of this stuff on their way out. They don't even become upset when they see trash. We picked it up, and so can others. These are the users who never give back by cleaning up or helping to maintain trails etc. I call them 'takers.' They take and never give back. And they think they are environmentally oriented. What a joke these folks are. Sorry to rant, but trash is a pet peeve of mine.