would this work?
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 Feb 16, 2013 this is what youtube and lots of research is telling me to use for heavy loads: hauling hauling have any of you used this method or know if it would work? Mickey SensenbachFrom San luis obispo CAJoined Dec 27, 2012150 points
 Feb 16, 2013 No, you are going to die. Tyrel FullerFrom Denver, COJoined May 9, 2010174 points
 Feb 16, 2013 look two posts down mountainproject.com/v/21-haul-... mountainproject.com/v/21-haul-... Check out Mark Hudon's website. To me, that setup looks much less than optimal for 2:1 and probably not worth it for a truly heavy load. But I have not tried it, so I'll reserve judgement. I do know that Mark and PTPP's setup works well and is well tested. csproulFrom Davis, CAJoined Dec 3, 2009303 points
 Feb 16, 2013 It'll work, you have a 3:1 theoretical mechanical advantage, but you have you least efficient pulley where you need your most efficient pulley. Your input force is reduced by at least 30% going over your carabiner, a quick analysis shows you're slightly less than a 2:1 (1.897 assuming 70% efficiency for the biner, and 90% for the pulley and traxion). If you put a 90% efficiency pulley in place of your biner, you'd have almost 2.5:1 (2.439). Just switching the location of your biner and pulley gets you from the 1.897 to 2.097:1 actual mechanical advantage (assuming the same efficiencies as stated above) Robert CortJoined Oct 12, 2009809 points
 Feb 16, 2013 ^^^ someone paid attention in physics class. Rob GordonFrom Hollywood, CAJoined Feb 2, 2009138 points
 Feb 16, 2013 thanks for the segestion for the pullys and I just didnt have them for the picture but was going to switch out biners for pullys. Mickey SensenbachFrom San luis obispo CAJoined Dec 27, 2012150 points
 Feb 16, 2013 Robert Cort wrote:It'll work, you have a 3:1 theoretical mechanical advantage, but you have you least efficient pulley where you need your most efficient pulley. Your input force is reduced by at least 30% going over your carabiner, a quick analysis shows you're slightly less than a 2:1 (1.897 assuming 70% efficiency for the biner, and 90% for the pulley and traxion). If you put a 90% efficiency pulley in place of your biner, you'd have almost 2.5:1 (2.439). Just switching the location of your biner and pulley gets you from the 1.897 to 2.097:1 actual mechanical advantage (assuming the same efficiencies as stated above) mhmmm mhmm hmmm.. Yeah I know some of those words. Andrew RiveraJoined Sep 3, 201133 points
 Feb 16, 2013 I would certainly work but it would certainly be slow. You do have 3:1 but with every pull to raise the bag one foot you have to pump off three feet, in the very next stroke, to lower you pulley one foot, you have to feed out three feet. To raise the bag 150 feet you have to deal with 450 feet of rope. BTW, that lower rope grab (what the hell are those things called, I own one and can't recall its name?) is going to shred your rope. I had one on Iron Hawk and it slipped three times and shredded six to eight inches of sheath each time. Mark HudonJoined Jul 27, 2009292 points
 Feb 17, 2013 Mark Hudon wrote:I would certainly work but it would certainly be slow. You do have 3:1 but with every pull to raise the bag one foot you have to pump off three feet, in the very next stroke, to lower you pulley one foot, you have to feed out three feet. To raise the bag 150 feet you have to deal with 450 feet of rope. BTW, that lower rope grab (what the hell are those things called, I own one and can't recall its name?) is going to shred your rope. I had one on Iron Hawk and it slipped three times and shredded six to eight inches of sheath each time. Agreed. I'd switch the Tibloc out for a Ropeman 3. Austin BairdFrom SLC, UtahJoined Apr 26, 2009106 points
 Feb 17, 2013 It is really Key to have good efficient pulleys. My physics bro upstream is correct. Maximize your efficiency. Good luck! Kirk B.From Boise, IDJoined Feb 13, 201369 points
 Feb 17, 2013 using a 5:1 is the worst advice I've ever heard. to haul a 200 foot pitch you'd have to move OVER 1000 FEET, FUCK THAT! Keenan WaeschleFrom Bozeman, MTJoined Feb 8, 2010232 points
 Feb 17, 2013 Of note when dealing with heavy loads: don't over-fill that hot tub or you'll end up with water all over the place. frankstonelineJoined Apr 23, 200922 points
 AdministratorFeb 17, 2013 Keenan Waeschle wrote:using a 5:1 is the worst advice I've ever heard. to haul a 200 foot pitch you'd have to move OVER 1000 FEET, FUCK THAT! No way, 5:1 is great idea. In fact, I think he should upgrade to a 182:1 to ensure he has the easiest-possible time hauling the pig. Just like this: 20 kNFrom HawaiiJoined Feb 2, 2009880 points
 Feb 19, 2013 Someone suggested 5:1? Mark HudonJoined Jul 27, 2009292 points
 Feb 19, 2013 I've used 3:1 or Z drag for boating and it does work. My favorite thing to do is set up a tug of war and watch 3 people and 1 person have a reasonably fair battle. I've never needed or used one for hauling, I think there are better ways out there, like counter weight hauling and 2:1 John DJoined Nov 24, 201021 points
 Feb 19, 2013 I would suggest this 2:1 mech advantage setup. I've used it twice now and it worked well. mountainproject.com/v/21-haul-... A tibloc is meant for emergency use only and has sharp teeth. I would not want to be using that for a hauling system. It also will not automatically grab. Usually you have to set them each time. I would also not use a ropeman. I tried that and resetting the system is a pain. I found that using a petzl basic was best. Your mini traxion is around 70% efficient. There are many other rope grab pulley combos out there that are moreefficient such as the kong block and roll. The nylon bushing pulley you have in the picture has a horrible efficiency rating. If you can't find efficiency numbers for the pulley then it's not worth using. All the efficiencies add up to you having to work harder to haul your pig up. randy88fj62Joined May 28, 201067 points
 Feb 19, 2013 randy88fj62 wrote:I would suggest this 2:1 mech advantage setup. I've used it twice now and it worked well. mountainproject.com/v/21-haul-... A tibloc is meant for emergency use only and has sharp teeth. I would not want to be using that for a hauling system. It also will not automatically grab. Usually you have to set them each time. I would also not use a ropeman. I tried that and resetting the system is a pain. I found that using a petzl basic was best. Your mini traxion is around 70% efficient. There are many other rope grab pulley combos out there that are moreefficient such as the kong block and roll. The nylon bushing pulley you have in the picture has a horrible efficiency rating. If you can't find efficiency numbers for the pulley then it's not worth using. All the efficiencies add up to you having to work harder to haul your pig up. Is the efficiency of the capturing device (the mini-trax in this case) relevant? Seems to me that the load is not on this pulley since the weight is being pulled by the Tibloc through the other two pulleys. I seem to remember Mark and PTPP saying that the efficiency of the pulley on the rope capture device was not important, but maybe I misunderstood. Or was this only the case if using a separate Z-chord to do the pulling and not the rope as is the case here? Definitely the other pulleys, especially the upper one, would be major factors in the efficiency. csproulFrom Davis, CAJoined Dec 3, 2009303 points

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