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Wooden platform bolted to prune face crag below Gate Buttress
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By LCC-Climber
May 30, 2014

more detail
more detail


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By LCC-Climber
May 30, 2014

Boissal wrote:
Fixed it for ya.



Where's the "like" button?


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By jonathan knight
May 30, 2014
Kessler Cairn

This thread is gold, and I, for one, have gleaned much value from the "your mp moment of zen..." thread during days spent cuffed to my chair making ends meet. It's usually not personal and really only critical of the mob mentality that has descended upon this once-upon-a-time, fringe activity. Sorry to see a fellow Idahoan caught up in the Wasatch spin cycle. James, I hope you can value the relative sanity up there!

Back on topic. This sort of heavy-handed, unsustainable, and downright ugly effort is unacceptable. Increased, recent use at this site has exacerbated erosion problems, but it can be fixed with natural materials (rock, duh!), in time. The SLCA has an ongoing dialogue with the Church, attempting to address permanent access as well as this and other negligent actions on their land in LCC. We, the local community, need to be patient while this unfolds, and hopefully, we can work to stabilize and designate our impacts in the near future. Meanwhile, we can be vigilant, continuing to remove trash, fire rings, graffiti, and promoting responsible use of the resource.


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By Jamespio
May 30, 2014

jonathan knight wrote:
This thread is gold, and I, for one, have gleaned much value from the "your mp moment of zen..." thread during days spent cuffed to my chair making ends meet. It's usually not personal and really only critical of the mob mentality that has descended upon this once-upon-a-time, fringe activity. Sorry to see a fellow Idahoan caught up in the Wasatch spin cycle. James, I hope you can value the relative sanity up there!


Make no mistake, I was merely grabbing some entertainment value in this thread, on a day when I don't have a lot to do, but still need to be in the office.

And yeah, the "mob mentality" is reaching every corner these days. It's a function of population growth. More climbers = more assholes who climb, same as every other sport. Fortunately, Idaho outdoorsmen tend to have a relatively low asshole ratio, and I can report that I've had very few bad interactions on streams or rivers, and none at crags here at home; compared to many, many positive interactions at both places. But there is a special kind of self-righteous, self-important, undeserved arrogance among Wasatch Front outdoorsmen, at least on the internet. Normally, I just let it go, since the upshot of it is that they have to live in Utah.


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By Salt Lake Climbers Alliance
May 30, 2014

The SLCA was made aware of these structures on Wednesday 5/21 by a local climber. While we were investigating if their construction was sanctioned by the owners of the property (The LDS Church), the structures were removed without input from or the support of the SLCA board or executive director.

SLCA does not condone building structures like this, particularly out of man-made materials, without the approval of the property owners and/or land managers.

Likewise, before taking action to remove materials like this it is preferable to consult the property owners/land managers and potentially seek input from the climbing community.

Access to climbing on private property is a privilege that can be easily taken away due to rouge activity like this.

The SLCA is currently in discussions with the Church about stewardship projects near the Gate Buttress, as well as, a longer term relationship in regards to management of climbing resources on their property. Incidents like this undermine these efforts.

If there are further questions or comments, please feel free to contact us on our website.
www.saltlakeclimbers.org

Sincerely, Paul Tusting (on behalf of the SLCA Board)


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By Grover
May 30, 2014

Any pictures of the finished platform? The start looks good and I think its a great idea. just wondering what the finished product looks like? Pictures of any other work you've done to the area would be appreciated too, keep up the good work.

Edit: damn just read the post above, bummer.
For the record im pro structures.


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By Boissal
From Small Lake, UT
May 30, 2014

Grover wrote:
Any pictures of the finished platform? The start looks good and I think its a great idea. just wondering what the finished product looks like? Pictures of any other work you've done to the area would be appreciated too, keep up the good work.

You misspelled "troll".


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By Grover
May 30, 2014

actually I like climbing manufactured routes as well, just being honest here Brah!

Edit: And I also like to manufacture routes.


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By Boissal
From Small Lake, UT
May 30, 2014

Grover wrote:
actually I like climbing manufactured routes as well, just being honest here Brah! Edit: And I also like to manufacture routes.

And now you're misspelling "I have nothing to say". Sigh...


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By MJMobes
From The land of steady habits
May 30, 2014
modern man

erosion, irritation and control issues are normal for human behavior, we fuk the planet while saving it at the same time. how special we all are!

and James, be happy you arent speaking your mind near the GODS of bouldeRADo, they eat n00bs and barf them all at once, all while posting pics of themselves doing bouldeRADo type things in Utah


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By Grover
May 30, 2014

Boissal wrote:
And now you're misspelling "I have nothing to say". Sigh...

Karma


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By Cybele
From Midvale, Utah
Jun 2, 2014
near Malibu Creek sport climbing area, Los Angeles area, California

I am new to SLC from Cali and AZ and plead dumb perhaps after only one month here, but honestly there are wood-framed platforms built into the base of climbs I've already been on here as well as at numerous areas I've climbed in other states with erosion problems, not to mention wooden "steps" (erosion control) built into countless trails I've been on, both climbing and non-climbing related. Mt Olympus regular walking trail, for one example. Red Slab at Rock Cyn for another (ugh! chain link fence, wow, but the wooden levelers make common sense to me). Owens River Gorge for another. Countless trails around SoCal. Etc etc. I have been told the base of Slips and Perhaps (or was it Crescent Crack?) has a base man-made of some material. Of course using rock is ideal, but isn't doing it that way very difficult? I would like to understand, Is the problem the community has with the materials chosen, the lack of input from the land owners (would they actually approve construction of any kind though, doubt it for liability reasons. There aren't "building permits" that I've ever heard of for such a thing), the lack of a climbing association endorsement, the fact that a staging area wasn't finished and buried with dirt before it was "discovered" on the internet, what? I would like to understand, genuinely, as a new member of the climbing community in SLC. Thanks.

PS My first choice would be no damn crowds at crags causing erosion problems and slipping and sliding all over, sad to find nowhere flat to put their boomboxes, etc, but given that ain't likely anymore, well, sigh, I have to admit it if a base of a climbing area is on a severe angle (is this one? I dunno) then leveling somehow is needed for erosion issues. However, I see in the picture on the other site a chopped tree, not keen on that. It looks like the wood thing was pretty high off the rock, too, not sure how that plays out, if it could have been filled in & buried or what.


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By Andrew Gram
Administrator
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jun 2, 2014
Andrew Gram

Or just don't build platforms in a talus slope that has been like that for a long time. One belayer can balance on a boulder. If you need 6 people watching you send go to a gym.


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By Greg G
From SLC, UT
Jun 2, 2014
The route in it's entirety.

Cybele I think it boils down to the property being owned by the LDS church, and the greater climbing community fearing that one bad action will have swift and irreversible repercussions for us all.

Yes the slips have stone enforced terraces it is not on church property, and has long been the n00b stronghold of the wasatch.


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By Ken H
From Bell's Canyon, UT
Jun 2, 2014
Bird of Fire. Photo Credit Alex Cooper.

Cybele, you seem well intentioned and not just trolling so I'll try to give you my perspective (keep in mind just one of many). Yes, the issue is with the lack of communication with the land owner. Trail construction always needs as you put it a "building permit." If you did something like this in a National Park without permission and you were caught you would be arrested and taken to jail. In a National Forest, you would probably be fined and might be charged for the trails/structures removal. On private land, if the owner didn't like it you could be charged with trespassing and taken to jail.

The local community is always concerned about access to this area as it is always viewed as delicate.

Take a look at the work which has gone into updating the Forest Service land in the Crescent Cracks area. That has been a huge project and I would say the climbing community won some and lost some on the ultimate approved plan which is fine as it is multi-use land.
www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/57802410-90/canyon-canyons-cl>>>

If you are new to the area and stoked to do some stewardship work, that is great! I suggest you checkout:
www.fs.usda.gov/detail/uwcnf/about-forest/jobs/?cid=fsem_035>>>
Contact the SLCA (local arm of the Access Fund)

Or if you can spare $25 come to the fund raiser event next week in the BD Parking Lot June 12. SLCA will surely have a table dolling out the latest on local issues.
www.saltlakeclimbers.org/event-registration/

Again this is just one perspective.


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By LCC-Climber
Jun 3, 2014

On a lighter note, stop in to the 7-11 at the mouth of Big and pick up a copy of his new guidebook, which is proudly displayed right next to the register. Proceeds will undoubtedly fund future projects such as this.


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By Cybele
From Midvale, Utah
Jun 5, 2014
near Malibu Creek sport climbing area, Los Angeles area, California

Well thanks for some perspective. First, I didn't realize there had to be permits on trails outside of places like national parks/government owned land. And I would be surprised to hear that the church is willing to visibly condone climbing by endorsing erosion control at the base, for obvious liability reasons. Correct me if I am wrong. So that means one of the only remaining choices is to leave the area alone. Certainly the only officially appropriate choice. Since I haven't seen the area I can't speak to how bad the slope is at the base. Having to perch on a rock to belay at a bolted area with easy climbs sounds like a bad scene in the making over the long run, given the fact that yes, groups do go to crags with bolts, as do many many many parties of two or three, maybe even all in the same day, and they do tromp around the base creating erosion. They ain't just going to go to the gym. Seems that postings from both sides on the internet is a contributor to the problem, as a quiet improvement project carried out amongst friends and finished (buried with rock and dirt) before anyone even saw would not be likely to engender as much controversy. Hmm. But really I should not even have posted up given that I just moved here.

"Cybele I think it boils down to the property being owned by the LDS church, and the greater climbing community fearing that one bad action will have swift and irreversible repercussions for us all. "
Yes, understood.


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By a.l.
Jun 5, 2014

Cybele wrote:
Well thanks for some perspective. First, I didn't realize there had to be permits on trails outside of places like national parks/government owned land. And I would be surprised to hear that the church is willing to visibly condone climbing by endorsing erosion control at the base, for obvious liability reasons. Correct me if I am wrong. So that means one of the only remaining choices is to leave the area alone. Certainly the only officially appropriate choice. Since I haven't seen the area I can't speak to how bad the slope is at the base. Having to perch on a rock to belay at a bolted area with easy climbs sounds like a bad scene in the making over the long run, given the fact that yes, groups do go to crags with bolts, as do many many many parties of two or three, maybe even all in the same day, and they do tromp around the base creating erosion. They ain't just going to go to the gym. Seems that postings from both sides on the internet is a contributor to the problem, as a quiet improvement project carried out amongst friends and finished (buried with rock and dirt) before anyone even saw would not be likely to engender as much controversy. Hmm. But really I should not even have posted up given that I just moved here. "Cybele I think it boils down to the property being owned by the LDS church, and the greater climbing community fearing that one bad action will have swift and irreversible repercussions for us all. " Yes, understood.


Have you looked at the picture of what was constructed? This hardly qualified as a"quiet improvement project..buried with rock and dirt". Where would they even get the fill to bury something like that? You would have to dig out half of the nearby hillside. Erosion is an issue in the area but drilling and bolting this elevated structure into the rock was just a poor idea badly implemented.


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By Cybele
From Midvale, Utah
Jun 6, 2014
near Malibu Creek sport climbing area, Los Angeles area, California

Yes, I saw the picture, it looked pretty high up, I kinda wondered about that. I don't know how many boulders may be around to fill it in, in addition to dirt (which would be a lot), as I have not been to that base, so I tried to withhold final judgement given that I tried to assume intentions were basically good. I tend to try to assume that about humans, though certainly not always right. In this case I believe intentions were good. Additionally, though, intentions are sometimes good but execution not as good. If it's an important issue, I would try to maximize effectiveness in the right way to approach the person or issue, though, whereas internet forum-ing is often just an opportunity for a lot of extra talk.

My post was meant to indicate that I did not think this was a quiet improvement project amongst friends - because in fact it was posted as a meetup. That seems not so wise if it is a delicate issue with landowners.

Thank you for the links and info.


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By LCC-Climber
Jun 6, 2014

Trust me, with this individual intentions are always self serving.


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