Woman Overboard 

not trying to be mean but an actually description would be nice to tell curious people how the route is...

i second all of matts comments on these routes

I feel like Mountain Project may have softened us up some. In an area where all we need to do is find an obvious feature (read look at the arete), and then follow a line of bread crumbs up said feature, many of the route descriptions here go above and beyond the call of duty. Route sequences are not called for, and most guide books don't have them but to provide route finding logistics. What I mean to say is thanks D. Quinn for taking the time to post what info you had. It is certainly more helpful then not having any at all.

Where i agree with you is it is batter than no info but the poster is also the person with the FA, so he has more information. the goal of Mountain Project goal is to go beyond the guide book and give indepth information on the routes. Yes I agree guide books dont have indepth route descriptions and I dont want to see a blow by blow account of the route, I feel like on this website there should be more than just the location of the route. I am not trying to argue with anyone but the purpose of this website is to go above and beyond the guide book, this is a feeling I believe most users of this site believe in, and what the creator of the site intended for it.

here is The Proj's vision statement:

"Our vision is to take climbing beta beyond the guidebook, adding personalization and community features that add context and rich exploration to popular climbing sites across North America."

D. Quinn = Christina Callaghan? I agree with you matt, and that's a nice feature of mountain project. But i've seen a lot of this prodding for different routes, and I feel like it doesn't serve as the constructive criticism it's meant to be.

yes indeed, BEYOND THE GUIDE BOOK! the description on this route is no help at all cause you could easily walk up to the cliff and find a bolt line up an arete with out having proof of the existence of said route on this site... this is an old discussion that ive been through too many times but here is the bottom line... there was already a site telling us that routes existed, this is a newish site for people who have something to say or would like to read about the routes...

That's awesome. And i guess it's why i innately turn here before RC.com when looking for route information. I still believe though, that some description is better then no description. And I see what D.Quinn has put up as some description.

If anyone has better info to add, post it here as a comment and I'll integrate it into the route description.

I agree that these descriptions are not up to MP.com standards, but this site is in a constant state of flux, so we can all make it better. Go out, climb the routes, and lets make these descriptions more thorough.

And no, I don't think you have to give move-by-move beta for the route. Reputation, historical significance, location--this info is what sets MP.com apart from the other sites.

Well jay and everyone else, i climbed it so here is a little more info...

This is the line up the arete on the right side of the big gully that seperates the left and right sides of Crows Nest...

Make tricky hardish balance moves past the first couple bolts moving left and right around the arete... then follow a ramp on very easy rock left to a 2 bolt anchor...

lee was this the route that i didnt really care for?

I enjoyed this route. The movements past the first couple of bolts seem scary for those who aren't comfortable on 5.8 yet. Standing up tall and reaching for the edge before midway ledge was fun and a little balancy. A low angle ramp leads easier climbing to the top.

Fun and scary clip on the second bolt, leave the stick clip at home.