Login with Facebook
 ADVANCED
??Wolf's Head Accident - Aug. 18/19??
View Latest Posts in This Forum or All Forums
   Page 2 of 7.  <<First   <Prev   1  2  3  4  5   Next>   Last>>
Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
 
 
By Mark E Dixon
From Sprezzatura, Someday
Aug 21, 2012
At the BRC
Bikenut wrote:
Thanks everyone! I am surely an unworthy climber buy I am an arrogant prick with super strong opinions about shit the world doesn't care about so some day I might be as goo as you! Now eff off.


Starting to wonder if JohnL isn't making a cameo troll appearance here on MP. This attitude goes beyond believably moronic.

FLAG
By Tommy Layback
From Sheridan, WY
Aug 21, 2012
Tom on Cloud Peak, Bighorn Mtns, WY.  Blacktooth and Mount Woolsey in the background.
Bikenut,
No offense was intended by any of my comments. I honestly believe your story contains good lessons for all and very much appreciate your sharing. You're not an unworthy climber, but hopefully a wiser one as a result. I'm glad to hear you are not hurt. Good luck on your future climbs.

FLAG
By Cor
Aug 21, 2012
black nasty
sorry to sound rude in my post bikenut.

sometimes shit happens, but that ain't shit happening!

FLAG
By Bikenut
Aug 21, 2012
Thanks Tom. I wasn't offended by your comment. Obviously there was more to the story. I just wanted to post a short summary. Totally regretting being part of the "climbing community" and all the trash talking "hard core climbers" sitting at Starbucks on their laptop analyzing a situation they know nothing about.

FLAG
By slim
Administrator
Aug 21, 2012
tomato, tomotto, kill mike amato.
I guess the short summary that I got was that you had prussiks, but chose not to use them because it might be 'an ordeal'. Can you elaborate further? I think the average reader is going to infer from your statement that laziness was the culprit.

FLAG
By Doug Hemken
Administrator
Aug 21, 2012
On Everleigh Club Crack.  Photo by Burt Lindquist.
Bikenut wrote:
Totally regretting being part of the "climbing community" and all the trash talking "hard core climbers" sitting at Starbucks on their laptop analyzing a situation they know nothing about.


Next time I'm in a tight spot and trying to find ways to keep things from spiraling out of control, instead of calling SAR I'll post a note here and wait 5 seconds for the response from The Experts. You really don't have to post anything more than "Help!", and they'll be able to tell you exactly what to do!

Reality check: if the SAR folks reassured you "better safe than sorry", they meant it and you done good.

FLAG
By mike sheridan
From Golden
Aug 21, 2012
arg
So,
It is truly a learning experience for us in reading this. There was a lack of learning and experience by this party. If the concern is for your partners safety, learn about some rope safety and rescue practices. Don't head into the alpine environment with ignorance just because you can climb 5.6. If you cant go up a rope, stick to single pitch climbs and hiking trails. I recommend to you a great book, Mountaineering The Freedom Of The Hills. Make this your bible Bikenut it can save you next time instead of a chopper.

FLAG
By BackAtItAgain
Aug 21, 2012
I was there and witnessed the rescue shenanigans.. when we first saw the chopper circling - which I have never seen in numerous trips to that country... I thought the worst. Luckily, no one was hurt. And - to add - watching the chopper take off at eye level from the col was pretty damn cool. Kinda weird seeing a chopper parked at Cirque Lake for 4 hours..

That being said, I still cannot not understand not simply waiting this one out - this is the #1 trade route in the Winds... the first party thru to the raps on the morning of the rescue was thru the climb by 2ish, they would have freed the ropes. It is climbed at least once a day.. someone is likely close behind.

Anyway - glad you guys are okay, saw your note about fetching the ropes. A heavy load for someone to pack out. Talked to two parties that went by them the next day and thought "i dont wanna carry 2 ropes out here...".

As for the cell service - I guess there are not many places left sacred from electronic communication...




FLAG
 
By ben jammin
From Moab, UT
Aug 21, 2012
Aesthetics
Bikenut, I think point you are missing is that most of us feel that a Chopper rescue is a resource that should be utilized only in dire circumstances. Now, if you were unable to ascend the rope that is one thing, but if you didn't because of lack of skill, laziness etc. then I hope they charged ($$) you for the rescue.

My fear is that as more gumby gym climbers (not saying this is you) find their way outdoors, and feel unwarranted rescues are needed it will have a detrimental affect on future funding for rescues that are serious.

FLAG
By Mick S
Aug 21, 2012
Since the weather was good, there is always the option of an unplanned bivy on the summit. Descending in the dark on unfamiliar terrain is dangerous. I've spent the night out under a rock in the Winds, and yeah it was cold and we were out of food and water. We got down the next morning with no issues though. You might even find that the unplanned bivy was one of the highlights of the trip. Those small, super light space blankets are awesome ... not that I ever remembered to bring one.

FLAG
By doligo
Aug 21, 2012
Jose Cuervo Fruitcups dirtbag style
I would be interested in hearing more details: shitty rap anchor perhaps? If the climbers were incompetent ascending the ropes, it would have perhaps caused more ordeal? Ascending 65M of dynamic rope without mechanic ascenders would be a PIA, and if the anchors were shitty - scary! I'm sure the SAR assessment was correct, otherwise they would have told them to sleep it over and wait till the next day for other parties come down the route and free their rope up.

FLAG
By todd w
Aug 21, 2012
Wow. What a bunch of haters.

FLAG
By csproul
From Davis, CA
Aug 21, 2012
Summit of Wolf's Head with Pingora in the background
Couple of comments:

Their ropes could have only been freed by subsequent parties if they were on route and those subsequent parties would have come across them. If they were off the established rap route, then all bets are off.

If the rope got stuck while pulling it and one end is out of reach, ascending the rope would be scary and potentially unsafe. You are relying on the knot remaining stuck while you ascend the rope. Of course there are some tricks to make this safer if you have some rope left over to work with.

I did not think that the raps off Wolf's Head were super straight forward. We did them with one rope, but there was a lot of scrambling in between some of the raps, and there were some raps that went in the wrong direction entirely. Got down them just fine in the light, but it would have been not so much fun in the dark.

This sounds somewhat like they were not in a dire, calling-for-a-rescue situation yet, but we don't really know all the details or how easily it could have become a much worse situation

Having been in a serious accident that received much Monday-morning quarterbacking I can say that it is easy for victims to say that shit happens and that "this was just an unfortunate accident". Likewise, it is always easy to second guess decisions from the comfort of your computer. The truth probably lies someplace in the middle. In my case I didn't fully recognize the lessons of my accident until many years later. Let's hope the parties involved here learn those lessons faster than I did.

Also, WH was one of the best alpine climbs I have ever done. It is simply amazing.

FLAG
By Eric D
From Gnarnia
Aug 21, 2012
Born again on the last move of the Red Dihedral, high Sierras.
Is this for real?

You didn't want to put in the work to prusik up the rope so you called SAR? I hope they charged you for the rescue. Unbelievable. It is this kind of stuff that puts climbing access at risk.

FLAG
By notmyname
From Stony Brook, NY
Aug 21, 2012
there are some really nice, patient, kind souls on this website too for being understanding, or at least tolerant to the rescued party (concidering the story is true), when I'm sure they would love to shake the sh**t out of them for being stupid, lazy, dumbf#cks. I, however, will not comment but simply learn.

FLAG
By Charles Vernon
From Tucson, AZ
Aug 21, 2012
Hey bikenut, aside from all the shit that everyone's giving you, I am honestly curious to hear your thought process in choosing not to attempt to prussic/ascend the stuck ropes (you did have both ends of the rope, right?). I had a friend who got into almost the exact same situation on a long backcountry climb here in Southern Arizona a couple of years ago--down to not prussicking the rope, calling for a rescue, having gear dropped, having the team come up and meet them.

I am trying to understand what really goes through people's heads in this situation. Did you think that ascending the rope will actually be dangerous? Why? You've practiced before, but faced with ascending 200 ft in the dark you're suddenly not sure of yourself? You feel it will exhaust you to a point of danger? Your partner was freaking out and didn't want you to? You don't see the point because they'll just get stuck again?

I think a lot of the reason you're getting so much shit is that you diss the party ahead of you as inexperienced bumblers but then sort of off-handedly suggest that ascending the rope would be too much of an "ordeal." I'm guessing there's more to it than that and I want to understand what is really going through people's heads in these kinds of situations.

I never carry a cell phone on a backcountry climb, for two reasons, the primary one being that I'm weak and afraid that I would use it without justification.

FLAG
 
By Jason Todd
From Ranchester, WY
Aug 21, 2012
Moss
Bikenut wrote:
... Obviously there was more to the story. I just wanted to post a short summary. Totally regretting being part of the "climbing community" and all the trash talking "hard core climbers" sitting at Starbucks on their laptop analyzing a situation they know nothing about.


All we know is what you told us. It sure does appear that you called out of convenience rather than a true emergency. If that is the case, you deserve the grief you are getting. Otherwise you should enlighten us so others can learn from your "ordeal" as the OP stated.

FLAG
By Doug Hemken
Administrator
Aug 21, 2012
On Everleigh Club Crack.  Photo by Burt Lindquist.
Charles Vernon wrote:
I never carry a cell phone on a backcountry climb, for two reasons, the primary one being that I'm weak and afraid that I would use it without justification.


I used to have that mindset, but I've been at 5 accident scenes now where someone had serious injuries, and getting help sooner rather than later was the best "option", about one for every 4-5 years I've been an active climber (and every 2-3 years while I've been an active climber AND cell phones were an option ....)

If you haven't seen a situation that called for a cell phone, stick around!

(One more and I think I'm eligible for some sort of frequent flyer miles ... anyone want to go climbing this weekend?)

FLAG
By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Aug 21, 2012
Bocan
More of question comment since haha everyone has covered most things, but it sounds like you didn't have a headlamp? I've been caught out 2x times without a headlamp and now I don't even crag without one.

Days when I swear I'll be home by dark are the ones I'm sure to get stuck in the dark.

Those few basic things such as a headlamp, prussics, bail gear, knife, a little extra food and clothing, and either a extra belay device or the knot know how should be simple requirements for any multi pitch climb. Don't leave the ground without them. Figure the whole thing "may" weigh a pound and can be the difference between make or break.

Regardless glad to see you made it safely down.

FLAG
By pfwein
Aug 21, 2012
I wonder what percentage of recreational climbers can ascend vertically hanging ropes with whatever they happen to have on them? I really don't know, just wonder. My *guess* is that at least some of the people chiming in here may have a little trouble--it's not that easy if you don't have meaningful experience doing it, even if you can wrap a sling around a rope to get your friction knot working (and how's it working with modern slings?).

It's probably a skill that more of us should practice (myself certainly included).

FLAG
By ben jammin
From Moab, UT
Aug 21, 2012
Aesthetics
Your right, I'm sure most could use a refresher. I wouldn't go into the Winds (Zion/RR/Black) if I didn't think I could do it though..

FLAG
By Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Aug 21, 2012
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Peak.
bikenut, I have had rappel ropes stuck so tightly on two occasions on alpine routes. The first time, I got out my Tiblocs and started to ascend the rope and it finally began to pull. It took my full body weight for that. The second time it happened I had to ascend the rope fix the snag, and then rappel again and the rope then pulled down fine.

I highly recommend you get some Tiblocs and a daisy chain. Practice using them on a fixed rope for a few times and always bring them with you in the mountains. They are really nice for self rescue situations.

FLAG
By Tommy Layback
From Sheridan, WY
Aug 21, 2012
Tom on Cloud Peak, Bighorn Mtns, WY.  Blacktooth and Mount Woolsey in the background.
It may be instructive for some to review the following flow chart regarding senarios and solutions involving stuck rappel ropes. Simply ascending the one free hanging strand w/o knowledge how the rope is anchored could have caused BikeNut and his pards worse problems. But there are interesting solutions as the links below will outline.

Stuck Rappel Ropes

Stuck Rope Article

More Stuck Rope Stuff

I hope this discussion saves at least one party from a possible future epic.


FLAG
By Unassigned User
Aug 21, 2012
pfwein wrote:
I wonder what percentage of recreational climbers can ascend vertically hanging ropes with whatever they happen to have on them? I really don't know, just wonder. My *guess* is that at least some of the people chiming in here may have a little trouble--it's not that easy if you don't have meaningful experience doing it, even if you can wrap a sling around a rope to get your friction knot working (and how's it working with modern slings?). It's probably a skill that more of us should practice (myself certainly included).


Second that, I was just practicing using one in the gym with some guys yesterday. It ain't easy. Also the one time I had to climb a rope after getting it stuck on rappel I just used my belay device(tiring yes). I would grab the rope up by my head and pull myself up while using my other hand to pull the rope through the device, then lock off, reach up grap and repeat. Hardest way to get up a rope.

FLAG
 
By Sure-man
From Boone, NC/ S.F.
Aug 21, 2012
On Las Aguajas with TW0 summit in the background
I have a question for Tom (or anyone), regarding the second link you posted for us; "Stuck Rope Article". Thanks for those resources by the way.

Say your in the shitty situation where you have a stuck rope, you only have one end, and you have to do the rope solo-style ascent. The author of the article mentions that the prussik ascent is not safe to hold a fall and therefore you should use a 2 locking caribener clove hitch set up.

My question is this; if you DID have a Gri-Gri, would you ascend with it as you would a regular fixed line, OR would you have to feed the rope into the Gri-gri backwards because of how it would be loaded when the anchor up top pops out and you fall? You see what im saying?

Any thoughts...? Thanks.

-Brett

FLAG


Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
Page 2 of 7.  <<First   <Prev   1  2  3  4  5   Next>   Last>>