After getting a sweet deal on a bunch of Camp Nano 23 biners for racking and trad draws, I am severely disappointed. It's not that I find them hard to clip like many complain about. I think they are very easy to clip. The quality, however, is garbage.

• The have sharp pins [ends of the wiregate] incorrectly seated, so they tear nylon slings,

• The gate action is very stiff on some, easy on others.

• They are 7kn open gate, and the shroud protecting the gate from rubbing on rocks found on the original Nano was removed to save weight.

• The quality control is consistent with other cheap, low end Chinese made toys.

I just bought a few Ange L and S and so far i love them. I have only had them for about a month and used them primarily for racking draws when ice climbing. The L's handle pretty well with gloves on. I believe the helium's are a little bit lighter the the petzl ange L but only by a few grams. Ange's are a dollar or so cheaper. I have some Ange S as well, but I prefer the full size L to the S.

I don't think you can go wrong with either.

I'd wait for the DMM Alpha Light, looks pretty sweet. The Alpha trad is available for $10 right now, better biner, better price.

If not DMM Shield and Specter 2 are also good and the Mammut Moses is a very light Italian made biner that is on sale at quite a few retailers...

Agreed on the Chino Camp nanos, got rid of them myself.

• Looked at the DMM Shield - not interested.

• Spectre 2 is great, but Helium seems better to me? ~Little cheaper, but Helium is stronger & notchless.

• I looked at the Alpha trad.... Dunno what to think of it? The Light version looks good though - any idea when those will be available?

The plastic piece on the backside of the monofil gate seems like it is doing a great job keeping the ice/dirt/ crud out. I have taken them up a couple alpine ice climbs with involved some bushwacking. The gate still functions very smoothly. However only time will tell if it will still function as smoothly.

Again I do not see a major difference that will sway you either way. Breaking down the draws and utilizing the S on the gear end will save you a little bit of weight for sure.

A majority of my rack consists of BD and some mad rock carabiners, however I am becoming a petzl fan. I love the Attache, Williams, and now the Ange.

Yikes! Don't like broken biners.

I got my hands on an Alpha solid gate and was impressed.

No idea on when the Alpha light will be here but I'd call Lisa & Steve at Excalibur in SLC, they'll know and should be able to ship direct.

I too am curious about the Ange, I like Petzl gear, but I bought a few BD Oz biners and was wondering what others thought of those, I'm probably confining them to my trad rack.

I have a few of each (small Ange) and really like them both but they have their downsides -
The Ange feels less than awesome unclipping because it's a mono wire, it really feels like you're pinching (the plastic thing def helps but still feels odd after several months), and I suppose the simplicity benefit of a wiregate is lost since it has a hinge spring.
The Helium is generally great but I have small hands and sometimes find the basket too deep and clipping is hard (minor). Regarding dirt/ice clogging the notch I have not had any problems on ice and snow.

I've also been trying out BD Hoodwires and generally like them for their size and shape (big enough to use gloved but a little smaller than the Helium) but they are a little chunkier than even the Ange L.

I have some of the original Nanos that were still made in Italy and they were garbage then. That being said I really like both the Helium, although my only experience there is with a Helium draw I booted from a 5.5 in AZ and the Ange. I really like the Ange S and L but have many more of the Small ones and like them a lot for racking. They are pretty good for the Gear? bolt end of Draws as well. I personally think that a notch-less/ shielded nose is a very important for keeping the gate closed and you off the deck. I dont think you can really go wrong with Petzl Wild Country or DMM. However, I have some of the Cypher Mydas and really like them, except the nose is not hooded. I personally would get Anges or Astros, however if your have tech or Helium friends on your rack you may want to consider a rack pack of color coded heliums... they are pricey but nice.

I built some draws with the L's and am using the the helium's on the end of my helium's.

So far i love them all...

I haven't used the Ange but I use the Heliums and they obviously work well. I prefer the shape of the Helium/Nitro over the shape of the DMM

i use nitros, neutrinos, nanos, heliums, fs mini, shields and old solid gate biners

i have never found a huge difference between notched, notchless and lightly notched biners ... the nano and fs mini i do have issues with the size with gloves on and for clove hitches ...

quite a few "top climbers" still use notched biners ... its the climber that makes the difference, generally not so much the gear ...

that said my favorite are the nitros, full sized, hooded, lightly notched, light and CHEAP

I use Heliums exclusively on my ice rack and one of my regular partners recently invested in a batch of Ange Ss for his ice rack. Have used the Heliums for years and the Ange S for part of about half a season (1/2 season for me is around 20+ days) now. My impressions... I expected to really HATE the Ange S. I actually *still* want to hate the Ange S, but I can't honestly say that I've had any trouble handling/clipping them with gloves on. Every time I'm really gripped and we're using my partner's rack, I swear and expect to fumble with the Ange, but, miracle of miracles, they come off my harness, onto the screw ,and into the rope without a hitch. We did have *serious* issues with them icing shut on a VERY wet climb up in Canada, something that I don't recall ever happening with my Heliums, but it hasn't happened since. The S is about 4 grams lighter than a Helium. For my money, that's not sufficient for me to change and I prefer the larger size/gate opening on the Helium. But it's a preference; I don't really have anything objective and negative to say about the Ange S.

Regarding the Ange's: I'm frankly a little worried about what would happen if you cross loaded a rope across that gate. It seems pretty thin to me. I posted a question to the Petzl site about whether the MonoFil gate could/would slice a rope. My question was forwarded to the technical dept, but they have yet to answer it. Details at: www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/news/products-news-0/2011/02/11/ang>>>

I also started a post here at MP, but it didn't seem to raise much attention: www.mountainproject.com/v/is-the-petzl-anges-monofil-gate-a->>> .

i've become a fan of the Camp Photons for light full size biners. I have small hands and still hate freaking Nanos and metolius mini's

i do like neutrinos for racking though. and surprisingly the Mad Rock wiregates are also good for that. they suck for clipping the rope but for racking they are cheap and light

So I had a friend pick up a couple Petzl Ange S biners for me, and I have been comparing all of them. Phantoms, Helium, Neutrino, Moses, Ange S, Nano 23, Fs Mini, etc.
Will be writing a full comparison soon.

I will say, however, the Ange S is great. Quality is top notch, and it handles every bit as well as a full size Helium.

• The Dmm Alpha Light is not shipping for a few more months. I am holding my breath!

• The Wild Country Nitro has really piqued my interest, but have not been able to acquire any yet. Looks 90% as nice as a Helium for about half the price...

• I would be interested in the Wild Country Astro if its open gate strength(7kn) was on par with the rest of their line up.

I bought a petzl ange S 17cm draw. i do not like this particular carabiner because of its small opening (my fingers get stuck half the time i try to clip with it) and size (with gloves on? no way) i know the L is bigger, but it still has the single wire design which i find to be its biggest flaw. While clipping desperately on hard trad/sport lines i found that your thumb tends to roll off of the single wire because it is a cylinder, unlike a standard wire which has 2 wires to press against, giving you easier use with your thumb. i would not recommend the ange at all...however i have used the heliums and freakin' love em, light, easy to handle, and high quality...go heliums for sure

Yeah, I've been looking for a clean-nosed wiregate for a long time to replace my rack of DMM Prowires. I've bought a couple each of Ange S, Heliums, and Alpha Trads.

I don't like the Ange S for a couple of reasons. First, the monowire makes it a bit more unstable when opening since you only have two points of contact, as opposed to normal wiregates where the two wires of gate essentially create three points of contact. Second, the "bulb" on the end of the wire tends to catch the rope when clipping it in, requiring an extra little tug to get it in the biner. Both are things you can get over but are still niggling things you need to be careful of while making sketchy clips.

The only difference between the Helium and Alpha Trad is a bent or straight spine. Not sure yet which I prefer.

Does anyone know how the Alpha Light will compare to the Alpha Trad? I can see the pictures, and I assume the only difference is size. The Light is probably more like the Phantom in size. Can anyone confirm this? Does anyone know if gate size and opening will be different on the Lights, vs. the Trads? The Lights are still unavailable as far as I can tell... Thanks.

I went with the nitros on 5 new alpine draws. I love them but my buddy just got the ange s biners and I have biner envy. Those biners are light, they are recessed to prevent snags and They look awesome. I have 5 more draws to replace and you can be sure they will be ange s

I love my camp Nano 23s. I use them on all my extendable draws on one end / larger (though still very light) Trango biners on the other end for clipping. I've heard of the gates wearing out and not closing well after a lot of use, though I've yet to see this occur, even on my oldest 23s. What's all the hate about?