Why is gym climbing so difficult?

I always hear folks saying how if you climbed v5 in the gym it doesn’t count or something along those lines. I find that I climb consistently worse in the gym than I do outside. Are the gyms in the Chattanooga area that sandbagged? I often find v2/3 in the gym to be challenging, sometimes even quite difficult. Do other folks feel the same? I do notice that I perform poorly on outdoor problems with many options for hand and foot placement, pocket pool at LRC being the example that comes to mind. I often find it difficult to decide on a sequence in the gym, while outside I feel that I can flow more easily. Anyone else have a similar experience? Any ideas for improving performance?

V2/3 should feel difficult as it is equal to 11b/c movement.

I always tell people that I'm just not a good climber in the gym as compared to outside. I'm not sure why except that I learned to climb outside and prefer it. I also feel that inside there's too many options or the climbs are sequential, whereas outside, especially climbing trad, I have more options. I'm glad you posted this...I feel less like a freak now!!!

Leslie McG wrote: I also feel that inside there's too many options or the climbs are sequential, whereas outside, especially climbing trad, I have more options.

So inside there are too many option but not enough but too many?

I think the reason people say that climbing inside doesnt matter is because for most people climbing in the gym is training and the real climbing is outside. or All they do is climb inside and use it as a workout rather than a passion, therefore none of it matters. Competition climbers, from what Ive found, are the only ones that really care about what they climb inside. Really the question you have to answer yourself if whether that problem that will be taken down and replaced in a few weeks is worth worrying about or just a good challenge to get you ready for the 'real' project outside.

I have also noticed that a lot of people can either climb very strong in a gym and not so well outside or really strong outside and struggle in a gym. they are two different world and nearly impossible to compare, though everyone tries. Just enjoy your workout. See it as a way to improve your technique and sequencing. Climbing gyms were only meant to be a way to train and get strong for the days you can go outside. if you use it for that then you wont have to worry about ratings.

Leslie McG wrote:I also feel that inside there's too many options or the climbs are sequential, whereas outside, especially climbing trad, I have more options.

Is anyone else scratching their head?

Inside: too many options (than outdoors?) = Bad climbing

Outside: having more options (than the gym?) = Better climbing.

Isn't too many options = having more options?

Lee- It really depends on the gym. Some gyms i can onsight v5 other gyms I'll be lucky to even send v3. Its all dependent on the gym and the setter

Mike Brady wrote: So inside there are too many option but not enough but too many?

Well-said, Mike. What she wrote is a classic case of triple-negative reverse psychology, with a twist. And a half-gainer.

I've climbed in gyms around GA and FL and the bouldering grades are really unpredictable. A V2 at one gym could be a V4 at another gym, and vice versa.

I feel like that the actual difficulty of a bouldering problem is pretty subjective overall though. I've been actively climbing for about 8 months now and I had trouble topping out a V1 problem at one gym but I've sent several V2-V3 problems at the main gym I climb at. I haven't had much experience climbing outside so I can't really compare.

On a side note, the gym I climb at doesn't grade boulders like other gyms. My gym grades boulder problems on a base scale of V0-V1, V2-V3, V4-V5, and so on for each problem.

I learned to climb outside on the crystal pinching Harney Peak Granite of the Black Hills of SD. There was a certain flow to it all, learning to trust friction and how to read a route ground up where sometimes the bolts or protection would be few and far between. It was a much more technical and thoughtful way of climbing.

I have not found this translating to gym climbing and thus have consistently climbed worse in the gym. It's comparing apples to oranges though.

Mike Brady wrote:V2/3 should feel difficult as it is equal to 11b/c movement.

I usually find this range to be onsight territory while outside. Frequently, in the gym, it is more like working range.

Leslie McG wrote:I also feel that inside there's too many options or the climbs are sequential, whereas outside, especially climbing trad, I have more options.

I often find myself smearing for balance (dabbing?) while outside, this option is often taken away by the volume of other feet jibs that you are not "allowed" to use for your problem. I think I understand your reasoning.

Ian Cavanaugh wrote:Competition climbers, from what Ive found, are the only ones that really care about what they climb inside.

I think competition climbing, with only a few routes on a wall, would eliminate some of the difficulties I face. Much of the problem seems to stem from my inability to locate the correct holds/feet and execute movement in an efficient manner "on the fly."

LRC is soft! Gyms vary. HP40 on the harder side typically. Some of that is just conditions.

Well darn it Tom, that's not what I wanted to hear. My crags are soft, the gym is right. Bummer. I do find the predominant style of HP to be difficult for me, squeeze and slap. I feel like the obscure non sloper problems there are reasonable though, as well as the problems of Rocktown, LRC, Pep boys, etc.

It's logical to me! In the gym I see the tape and I just reach for it, or place my foot on it, without my brain having a chance to process how I will move up on that hold. Outside I usually have to process first and then move...making me a far more efficient climber outside than indoors. I also climb to my rests, which i dont do inside- where I climb to the next taped hold. So yeah, too many options confuses my brain...guess it's just me!

I would assuming the climbing style of both the climber and the route setter(s) may explain some of the issue.

I boulder with a guy who's better than I am. Outside he sends problems I cannot, but on the ones I *can* send, I climb them in a very different manner. I've tried his beta on a number of problems and found that it doesn't work well for me. He'll laugh at how I use a heelhook to top out, or dyno to a larger hold that off to the side and skip a hold he found important. In the gym I can sometimes keep up but it depends heavily on the problem. This is in part because of different body types (though we're both tall, I have a lot more muscle,and so weight), but has a lot to do with climbing style too (which is logically effected by body type).

So my thought is, perhaps you just climb in a weird way that take advantage of natural features not found in the gym, and have a different style to that of the route setters. Having too many holds in the gym can be confusing when the reasons for them are unclear. So maybe try reading the route first.

The more you climb in a certain area the more intuitive (easier) it becomes. I like LRC personally, it feels very similar to the gym. Mostly good face holds on vertical to steep rock with the occasional slab. HP40 is difficult to simulate in a gym. It can be done now with some of the larger slopey features being made by hold companies. Rocktown has a lot of roofs. Very specific style that is hard to train without having roof boulders in a gym. I have found certain gyms to be more sandbagged depending on what is near them for outdoor climbing. There were a few gyms near the Gunks that I thought were incredibly sandbagged. So it is also where the setters are climbing. At a place like Stone Summit, I have watched the grades get more and more stiff as the place aged. I attribute this to the members getting stronger and what feels easy considering they use consensus grading. They also stopped setting rests on route, probably due to the climbing team training. Chattanooga is on the stiff side when I think about places like TWall, Fosters, Sunset, but that may be because I mostly climb on granite. It is nice to be able to gauge your progress using grading scales, but remember to have fun. Don't get carried away with grade chasing, but find things that inspire you.

Climbing outside very often involves ledges. This allows hands free rests. When was the last time you milked such a rest indoors? Ha ha, like never.

Ledges make falling very unsafe, so they are excluded from indoor terrain. Also, very overhung walls are good for power training and there is also a lesser liklihood of colliding with the wall in a fall.

Another aspect of indoor routes is permanent topropes galore. This facilitates very quick changeovers to new routes, which does not allow for rests between climbs.

End result? Da gym pump you out, which is good because it's so mind numbingly boring you can then leave earlier than planned. March 9 is the end of daylight savings motherf'ers!

These areas are known to me to have sandbagged gyms:
California:
Palm Springs
Fresno
Redding
Coastal San Diego
Ojai
If a gym opened in Visalia it would probably be sandbagged

Washington:
Anything within 45 minute drive or Index

Oregon east of the Cascades

Wyoming & Idaho (in reality the same state)

Provo

All of North Carolina and Tenessee

All gyms within 60 minutes drive of the Gunks.

Most other gyms are right on, but the Vegas gyms are known to be soft.

Gyms are boring and sterile IMO...perfect for someone without outdoor opportunities around, or places with long periods of bad weather, but still boring. I'm thankful I have around 2000 boulder routes with a 20 minute drive of home, which is way quicker than the 45 minute-an hour drive to get to a gym.

Different setters set subjectively different graded routes, making gym grades hit or miss if they have more than one setter. Same with how boulderfields are developed, different developers favor different styles and different routes and grades can be up and down just as easily. The difference to me seems to be that most outside developers have a lot of experience to draw from to try to reach an objective grade, whereas gym setters many times don't have this experience.

I'm with Tom about LRC, super soft, but I've also found HP40 to be soft too (not as much now that grades have seen adjustments over the past 10-12 years). Rumbling Bald on the other hand is sandbagged as hell, but that's just the tradition around there :)

I think the best advice for improving performance is to climb as much outdoors as possible...putting yourself on more routes with more variety of moves and holds in real climbing situations will pay off more dividends than climbing the pink V2 over and over again until they replace it 6 months later.

I generally find indoor climbing harder for the simple reason that I'm fat. Have you considered the possibility that you too are fat?

Why are gyms so hard?

This thread is amusing... To add my two cents, I personally can boulder two or three grades harder in the gym, I top rope about equal with what I lead outside, and I lead about two letters under what I can lead outdoors...
So basically, V4 is almost always flashed in the gym, but requires several tries outside. An 11D is almost always flashed outside, but requires several tries in the gym (on lead). And any grade I can climb outside, can usually be top roped within 1-2 tries in the gym, even at my limit.