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Why does my VO2 max suck so bad?

Original Post
t.ferguson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 95

Hey there,

I'm looking for some input and advice to improve my cardio! In the past 6 months I've noticed that I get out of breath much quicker than I feel like I should. Some stats:

-I'm a female, 21 years old. Nothing has changed in my habits in the past 6 months.
-A typical week (since July of this summer) consists of around 4 or 5 days of running.
-My typical run is short and steep, a little over 1 mile with 1000' gain. I will usually run this as fast as I can, though some days I will go at a mellow pace.
-About once a week I will hit something longer, usually around 6 miles round trip with 1500' gain.
-Otherwise I work as a multipitch guide, which involves a steep approach (.5 miles, 500' gain) at a moderate pace, let's say anywhere from 3-5 times a week.
-Throughout all of these I notice that my legs typically aren't tired, though my breathing makes me feel pretty pathetic. It seems ridiculous that I still have a hard time holding a conversation on a steep hike that I do 4 times a week, and it's frustrating feeling like my legs could run faster though my lungs can not.

-I also notice feeling out of breath while sport climbing (particularly on juggy steep routes), which I will blame on this as opposed to my poor technique or nerves ;)

So, all of you physiology extraordinaires, any suggestions or thoughts? Or am I just destined to feel like a chain smoker during my cardio pursuits?

Rich B · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 10

Have you ever been checked for asthma?

ChrisN · · Morro Bay, CA · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 25

VO2 max is a measure of the maximum volume of oxygen that your body can use and may not be the culprit here...

What you describe may relate more to your aerobic fitness vs. your anaerobic fitness/VO2 max type fitness.

It sounds like you may need to work on your aerobic systems.. longer, slower runs (ie conversational pace), long slow bike rides, long hikes etc. This will do wonders for you during long days in the mountains. Your body will become much more efficient at burning fat vs. burning carbohydrates.

I used to be heavily involved in the bike racing world and people always obsessed over this stuff... I would spend several hundred hours each winter building aerobic fitness ("base") before starting to layer on the anaerobic/VO2 max type efforts. It's hugely important for any type of fitness, and may well be the root cause of some of what you describe.

Steve House's "Training for the New Alpinism" is the single greatest explanation of the bodies' physiological systems that I have come across. The book spends a great deal of time encouraging these base building efforts. Highly recommended.

Eli Buzzell · · noco · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 5,506

You could be iron deficient or anemic. I suggest cooking in cast iron and maybe talking to a professional.

Rich B · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 10
Eli Buzzell wrote:You could be iron deficient or anemic. I suggest cooking in cast iron and maybe talking to a professional.
A sport climbing friend of mine and my sister were having similar problems: both in pretty good shape (which it sounds like you are) and they said it felt like they were breathing through straws at times and they became out of breath easily. Both got checked out by a doctor, got inhalers, and are doing much better...
Ryan Strickland · · Idyllwild, CA · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 127

I'm no expert, but I have read a few books on the subject. So take what you will.

You are probably aerobically deficient. Lore of Running and Training for the New Alpinism both talk extensively about building a large aerobic base. Basically, you need to get lots of volume in at an effort that allows you to breathe exclusively through your nose. This keeps your heart rate in "Zone 1." At first this will probably feel really slow and not feel like you are training. However, it works. I've worked at improving my Zone 1 endurance over the last 12 months and have noticed significant improvement. Before, all my runs were too fast and too short to receive the intended benefit of long day endurance at a good pace. So my recommendation is to slow down and run longer.

I highly recommend both books I mentioned

john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640

A lot of VO2 max is "inherited" you have it or you don't..IMO you can only improve it so much,,the rest lies in technique and psych factors(at least in climbin)

NateC · · Utah · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 0

Nothing in your post particularly relates to V02 max as it's defined. To answer the title question, VO2 max has a tremendous genetic component so if yours sucks, it's because you didn't pick your parents right.

The most direct, efficient and least demanding way in terms of recovery, to improve your aerobic capacities would be to determine your aerobic/functional threshold and do intervals at 85-90% of that threshold.

2-3 workouts a week with 2-3 intervals starting at 10 mins and working up to 20 mins with 5 mins very easy rest between, will show a ton of improvement in 12 weeks time. This can be continued with more marginal gains for quite some time beyond 12 weeks. It should go without saying that a proper warm-up should be conducted prior to starting the intervals in any of these workouts. You can do them cycling, rowing, running, etc. but your threshold and how it is determined will vary for each activity.

Craig Childre · · Lubbock, TX · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 4,860

Others have produced good advice. I'd like to add.

Consider some light training wearing a respirator, least starting off so you don't pass out. Elevate training level as you see fit. After spending an hour or two in the paint booth wearing one, mostly just standing around, makes me feel spent, like after a steep long climb. Harbor Freight tools has the least expensive version which is as durable as you'd expect. Spend a little more if you like the effects.

SYK, I can't carry much of a conversation while I'm hiking, on a steep climb it's nearly impossible.

Craig Childre · · Lubbock, TX · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 4,860

I see this when I read your name....

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/9f/46/12/9f46121731e936191869f422f5c51840.jpg

john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640

Don't confuse aerobic base levels and VO either. he 2 don't always fit together as intended

Kirsten KDog · · Edgewater, CO · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 80

All good advice. And I would especially agree with the comments to try and do longer, slower runs. It sounds like you mostly are doing short and steep hikes or runs, at sprint pace. Your endurance will increase if you slow some of these down and go for a longer distance. Just be careful not to increase mileage too quickly.

That being said, I feel your pain! I consider myself a strong trail runner & hiker, but I (often) find myself really breathing hard when I feel like I shouldn't be. It's weird. I do think it is somewhat genetic, and I've even found myself wondering if my lungs are slightly underdeveloped or something (ha!) It could just be one of those things....

Good luck!

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35

Has it always been bad or has it been recently your lungs have gotten wimpy?

If you have insurance, bring it up to your doc. If you're just as active or more so than most people your age but you just can't keep up, dig deeper.

When I went to college there was a guy on cycling team, totally average. He got some tests done and it turns out he was allergic to the cotton trees all over town. He cut the ones in his yard down, kept his house clear of them, and got on steroids to keep the inflammation down.

His lungs quickly cleared up and big surprise, dude was fast as hell. He'd basically spent years training in a low oxygen environment.

Bison · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 0

No expert, but it seems to me that a 10 minute hike up a steep incline at a quick pace without any warm up is going to result in feeling out of breath. I'm not sure long base miles training will help at all...your engine is just not warmed up. As to out of breath sport climbing, do you hold your breath a lot - sometimes it take a conscious effort to breath evenly when trying really hard?

t.ferguson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 95

Wow, thanks so much for all of the great info everyone! I really appreciate it.

-Craig the photo totally cracked me up. Thanks for that.
-J.C.P. both the approach hike and the short run both have about a half mile of flat ground before you hit the steep climb. Granted, not a whole ton of time to warm up, but it's better than nothing.

It sounds like a little interval training as well and transitioning to some long easy runs should be my first go-to. If that doesn't work perhaps I'll take a doctor's visit while I'm still on my folk's insurance ;) I've been working in this same location for the past three summers doing the same hikes and runs and it does seem like this season has been particularly rough.

Thanks again!

kenr · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 16,608

No - I think if you're 21 and you feel like your cardio fitness isn't what it was for the past three years, and you haven't changed much else (like prolonged inactivity), you should ...

See a doctor first.

Get that question out of the way, then tinker with training programs.

One of the two leading causes of death among teenage athletes is heart attacks -- from problems with the heart that were (previously) undiagnosed.

Presumably working with a doctor will include getting your hematocrit + red blood cell count measured -- critical oxygen carrier, fundamental for VO2max or aerobic performance -- some people genetically have more or less.

Or some people have defective hemoglobin (e.g. thalassemia minor) -- which might carry only 75% as much oxygen as normal. No cure for this currently, but you could adjust your training program to take it into account. Only if you know about it.

Ken

Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 1,374
kenr wrote:No - I think if you're 21 and you feel like your cardio fitness isn't what it was for the past three years, and you haven't changed much else (like prolonged inactivity), you should ... See a doctor first. Get that question out of the way, then tinker with training programs. One of the two leading causes of death among teenage athletes is heart attacks -- from problems with the heart that were (previously) undiagnosed. Presumably working with a doctor will include getting your hematocrit + red blood cell count measured -- critical oxygen carrier, fundamental for VO2max or aerobic performance -- some people genetically have more or less. Or some people have defective hemoglobin (e.g. thalassemia minor) -- which might carry only 75% as much oxygen as normal. No cure for this currently, but you could adjust your training program to take it into account. Only if you know about it. Ken
^^^this. Please.
Beean · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 0

300m is not a whole lot of gain, nor does it seem like it takes a lot of time to do. I'm guessing it's around a 15-20 min run? I'd up the ante a little and try and get at least 1000m once a week, and if at all possible increase your daily run time.

Additionally, cut back your pace so that you're barely working. If this means speed walking, do so. It's all about duration. Slow down and increase your training time to around an hour or a bit longer, daily.

On your longer runs once a week try and get around 3 hrs at a stupid slow pace.

Over time you'll find that you'll be able to go faster at this easy intensity level and for longer. It will seem like you're not doing a whole lot, but many endurance athletes incorporate this into their training.

I'm basically spouting what Ryan Strickland is recommending. Check those books out and you'll be a cardio monster in half a year, guaranteed.

caesar.salad · · earth · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 75

Medical professional here. Sounds like the above posters who suggested asthma are on the right track. Exercise induced asthma to be exact. There are plenty of other possibilities and I would have to ask several more questions to really clarify the situation, but from your description alone, asthma is number one. Talk to your doctor.

Rusty Finkelstein · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 0

Consider doing shorter, higher intensity intervals (3-5 times at 3-5 minutes each) with moving recovery periods the same length as your intervals. Don't stop moving during your rest time...even if you have to walk, just keep moving. If you're giving it the right amount of corn, you should still have enough power to maintain a slow recovery jog in between intervals. Also, from what I've always heard, and felt myself, an interval session well done should leave you smoked, and unable to repeat 2-3 times a week like mentioned above. Once every other week, at most, while also incorporating longer runs might give you better results... and like everyone else said, don't do this unless you know you're healthy.

Medic741 · · Des Moines, IA (WTF) · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 265

Go see a doc and get some blood drawn, have known a number of sad cases starting with similar shortness of breath in healthy people. If your insurance is good insist on a stress test if you've had any chest pain during these events. Had a friend drop dead last year from MI after ignoring weeks of *mild* chest pressure while mountain biking

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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