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Why climb harder?
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By ryan albery
From Cruisertonfieldville
Feb 14, 2014

I would guess that climbing 'harder' has buckets to do with personality; how much does someone appreciate the immediate here and now of 'hard', as compared to the here and now of being able to look around and take in the greater surroundings? That Jedi-ninja kind of thing I guess, balancing pride with vanity, competence with ability... which kinda defines what's fun.


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By PatCleary
From Rohnert Park, CA
Feb 15, 2014

Either I'm drunk (I am) or that's a bizzare post. Competence and ability are roughly synonyms. No idea what jedi-ninja means (Star Wars was largely a reimagined ninja movie, is that where we're going?) The here and now isn't directly affected by the grade (well maybe the here is, as there are a lot more heres).

I've climbed a lot of easy routes, some many times but the unfinished routes are the ones that haunt me. Plus Positive vibrations and Moonage Daydreams are you hard.


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By Steve Williams
From Denver, CO
Feb 15, 2014

Why not?


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By mike sheridan
From Golden
Feb 15, 2014
arg

Chicks dig dudes who climb hard, it's science man! And dudes dig chicks that climb hard. Oh, and also, anything worth doing is worth overdoing!


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By David Barbour
From Charlotte, NC
Feb 15, 2014

MC Poopypants wrote:
“To understand the limitation of things, desire them.” ¯ Laozi, Tao Te Ching


stop climbing at all, then

"There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level." -Bruce Lee


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By MC Poopypants
Feb 15, 2014
Dropping a deuce

"Man is lost and is wandering in a jungle where real values have no meaning. Real values can have meaning to man only when he steps on to the spiritual path, a path where negative emotions have no use."Sai Baba


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By Jon Zucco
From Denver, CO
Feb 15, 2014
yaak crack Red Rock Canyon, NV

"Chicks dig dudes who climb hard, it's science man! And dudes dig chicks that climb hard." -- Mike Sheridan

Wisdom.


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By Karl Henize
From Roaming
Feb 16, 2014

The more nuanced questions, which I think the OP is trying to have answered, are:

1. At what grade(s) is it no longer worth doing repetive or otherwise unenjoyable training to climb harder?

2. How much unenjoyable training are you willing to do, in order to be competent at your target grade(s)?

Speaking for myself, I will likely contine to be motivated to train until I am "solid" at the following grades 5.11c (redpoint), 5.10d (onsight sport), 5.10c (onsight trad). Once I reach those milestones, it will be intersting to see how much additional work would be requried to continue pushing grades.

I generally do not like to spend more than 1.5 hr/day or 6 hrs/week training to climb harder, when I do not enjoy the training activity for its own sake.


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By Rajiv Ayyangar
From Portland, ME
Feb 16, 2014
Cut! Sadly my flash attempt met with dismal pump-failure two bolts later.

David Barbour wrote:
stop climbing at all, then "There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level." -Bruce Lee


Beat you to it! (see post#26). I love this quote - it won't convince those who don't understand, but it certainly seems to resonate with those who do understand. It's less of an argument then a Rorschach test for your athletic soul.


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By Jon Zucco
From Denver, CO
Feb 16, 2014
yaak crack Red Rock Canyon, NV

Karl Henize wrote:
The more nuanced questions, which I think the OP is trying to have answered, are: 1. At what grade(s) is it no longer worth doing repetive or otherwise unenjoyable training to climb harder? 2. How much unenjoyable training are you willing to do, in order to be competent at your target grade(s)? Speaking for myself, I will likely contine to be motivated to train until I am "solid" at the following grades 5.11c (redpoint), 5.10d (onsight sport), 5.10c (onsight trad). Once I reach those milestones, it will be intersting to see how much additional work would be requried to continue pushing grades. I generally do not like to spend more than 1.5 hr/day or 6 hrs/week training to climb harder, when I do not enjoy the training activity for its own sake.


I think those grades are achievable without having to do any unenjoyable training. do you mind if I ask what your training regiment entails?


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By Karl Henize
From Roaming
Feb 17, 2014

Jon Zucco wrote:
I think those grades are achievable without having to do any unenjoyable training. do you mind if I ask what your training regiment entails?


At the moment, I currently live about as far away from a crag or climbing gym, as is humanly possible (Port Moresby, Papua New Guniea). So my current training regimen is somewhat irrelevant to most. However, now I generally follow the Eric Horst recommended regimen (frenchies, finger hangs, finger rolls, hyper gravity pull ups, treadmill, stationary bike, etc).

Back when I lived in a more climber friendly locale, I did mostly unfocused indoor bouldering and top roping for training, during the week days. I would do mostly alpine or low grade multi pitch climbs, on weekends. I hardly ever did any projecting or redpointing, as I preferred to climb things that I could on sight. I plateaued at 5.10b.


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By Old and Busted
From Centennial, CO
Feb 17, 2014
Stabby

If you can flash .13D or so, isn't going to most common areas a little like skiing greens and blues all day?
I've noticed with some of the better climbers I've hung with is that they out-skill themselves out of certain areas.


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By MJMobes
From The land of steady habits
Feb 17, 2014
modern man

Old and Busted wrote:
If you can flash .13D or so, isn't going to most common areas a little like skiing greens and blues all day? I've noticed with some of the better climbers I've hung with is that they out-skill themselves out of certain areas.


I've noticed similar things like when someone knowingly chooses to start projecting sport climbs way above their onsight level, say 12s and 13s) they may never climb trad anything ever again, often because they cant be seen flailing up a 5.9 in public


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By MC Poopypants
Feb 17, 2014
Dropping a deuce

Why climb harder? Because we are taught to.

Rajiv, there is no such thing as an athletic soul, athletic egoic identity perhaps. Man constantly exceeding his level does not create happiness.


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By Victor K
From Denver, CO
Feb 17, 2014
Water!

Man constantly exceeding his level does not create happiness.

Really!? Many of my happiest experiences, climbing or otherwise, throughout my life are associated with "surpassing my level", not to mention being able to retain employment, grow professionally, excel academically, learn an instrument etc. It ain't all ego, either. In fact, it's ego that often holds one back. Building an ongoing discipline of being present seems like an awesome lifetime project. Climbing is one avenue (at least while the body can take it).


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By MC Poopypants
Feb 18, 2014
Dropping a deuce

"The fleeting feeling of success is quickly supplanted by the need to push further." - Will

A temporary sense of happiness is created not by success but by a lack of desire. But the desire always returns and thus fades the happiness.

I believe happiness and contentment are inherent in life and always present. Our connection to that changes throughout life. Objects and events are not a source of happiness they are a source of temporary relief from desire.


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By Christian
From Casa do Cacete
Feb 18, 2014

MC Poopypants wrote:
"The fleeting feeling of success is quickly supplanted by the need to push further." - Will A temporary sense of happiness is created not by success but by a lack of desire. But the desire always returns and thus fades the happiness. I believe happiness and contentment are inherent in life and always present. Our connection to that changes throughout life. Objects and events are not a source of happiness they are a source of temporary relief from desire.


Lest you think Poopy has turned into a genius all of a sudden, this is pretty much a word-for-word uncredited regurgitation of standard Buddhist philosophy.


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By Victor K
From Denver, CO
Feb 18, 2014
Water!

Going back to the OP, "Why climb harder?" I call shenanigans! The question as stated is comparative and ego based, and designed to trap the egocentric into arguing for the self. Damn. It's a zen troll. Well played, MC Poopypants.


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By Mark Hudon
Feb 19, 2014
On the North America Wall in 1977.

I like to challenge myself on difficult route. Ultimately, though, having fun is my main goal.

Climb harder if you are having fun doing it, don't do it if you aren't. Pure and simple.


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By MC Poopypants
Feb 20, 2014
Dropping a deuce

Christian,

I gave credit for the quotes I used. Certainly not trying to act like I thought of this shit myself, that would be ridiculous. Indeed, this is an ancient teaching which I believe the world needs now more than ever. We have gone so far from our source and continue to be misled.


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By Top Rope Hero
From Was Estes Park, now homeless
Feb 21, 2014
WHAT THE HELL IS HE BELAYING WITH!?!

"It does nothing to increase the enjoyment"

Only an idiot or an asshole presumes FOR me what does or does not increase my enjoyment. For that matter, it takes the same idiot or asshole (or both) to presume that "enjoyment" itself is the only or even primary reason why I climb...or why I do anything.

Thanks for yer own brand of philistinism, buddy. What the world needs more of...


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By JTowny
From Phoenix, Arizona
Feb 21, 2014
messing around

To me it's like putting together a really big puzzle with small peices, sure it's frustrating and takes time and effort but when you finnaly do put it all together the feeling is like no other. That's why I like to climb harder and push myself anyway's. Grades are just bragging rights that sound cool but on a personal level don't mean anything.


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