Friends over things, outside over inside. Will you go out with us? #OptOutside — Join Us Outside
Sign Up  |   Log In:Login with Facebook
REI Community
Carcass Crag
Routes Sorted
L to R R to L Alpha
2-Pitch Route S 
Alternative Power S 
Appalling Travesty S 
Corporeal Jigsore Quandry T 
Goin' Postal S 
Progress S 
Spliff T 
Who's Your Daddy S 
Worthless Stud T 

Who's Your Daddy 

YDS: 5.12c French: 7b+ Ewbanks: 27 UIAA: IX- ZA: 27 British: E6 6b

Type:  Sport, 50'
Original:  YDS: 5.12c French: 7b+ Ewbanks: 27 UIAA: IX- ZA: 27 British: E6 6b [details]
FA: Dave Furman
Page Views: 3,011
Submitted By: Andrew Freeman on Jul 14, 2010

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (7)
Your todo list:
Your stars:
Your rating: -none- [change]
Your ticklist: [add new tick]
Your opinion of this PAGE:    [0 people like this page.]
Kevin Ryan on Who's Your Daddy

  • Seasonal Peregrine Falcon Closures MORE INFO >>>
  • Seasonal Raptor Closures 2016 For access issues: please review MORE INFO >>>

  • Description 

    A marvelous route. Stick clip/be a little bit brave, then climb low 5.11 for several moves. After clipping, embark on an energy-sapping sequence of opposing sidepulls. Clipping the third draw can be tough, and a vigilant belayer will be able to keep you off the ground should you choose to skip it. Once under the roof, stand tall and ram your hand into the yawning abyss (who's your daddy indeed!). A good knee bar provides pause before the tough, powerful crux that can be done a few ways. Mantle, take advantage of a good rest, and regroup for the last thing you wanted: a difficult slab.


    Halfway across the carcass crag. An obvious steep line with a big roof/dagger, and a slab on top. Ooh-la-la.


    Bolts, sometimes in situ. A long draw at the roof is helpful.

    Photos of Who's Your Daddy Slideshow Add Photo
    Rock Climbing Photo: Setting up to pull the roof.  photo cred.--Rhianno...
    Setting up to pull the roof. photo cred.--Rhianno...

    Comments on Who's Your Daddy Add Comment
    Show which comments
    Comments displayed oldest to newestSkip Ahead to the Most Recent Dated Aug 24, 2016
    By Colin R
    From: Ottawa, ON
    Jul 15, 2010
    rating: 5.12c/d 7c 28 IX 28 E6 6b

    Grade seems to float between 12c and 12d. Given the stiff ratings on other routes in the area its probably a little overgraded at 12d.
    By Andrew Freeman
    From: Brookline, MA
    Jul 15, 2010

    Significantly harder than dog father. Comparable in my mind to little red hen, or maybe i'm just a bad slab climber.
    By Chris Duca
    From: Havertown, PA
    Jul 15, 2010
    rating: 5.12c 7b+ 27 IX- 27 E6 6b

    Perhaps less sustained than the Doggfather, but the crux seems definitely more brutal. Though I haven't sent it yet, I'd certainly offer up that it's 12c.
    By Colin R
    From: Ottawa, ON
    Jul 18, 2010
    rating: 5.12c/d 7c 28 IX 28 E6 6b

    Just for clarification, I never said I personally thought it was 12d, just that's what I was told by others (climbers I am sure are well known in VT) when I first started climbing at Carcass. I would offer that it's 12c and while I think 12d is a little generous I think 12a is too stiff. I also feel this route is harder than the Doggfather since there isn't a real no hands rest and the crux is harder (I think). Therefore 12c seems appropriate though I haven't sent it yet (definitely worked it a bunch though). I hope I don't sound cliche in saying this but this debating is actually good for the sport and for climbing at Bolton. Though we disagree, in some sense a consensus is being formed around the grade and that is being reflected. Everyone's input and opinion is valid, otherwise there is no point in grading anything.
    By Colin R
    From: Ottawa, ON
    Jul 18, 2010
    rating: 5.12c/d 7c 28 IX 28 E6 6b

    I welcome more of this debate on other routes in the area. It's good to keep in mind that grading is highly subjective, always has been, always will be. We don't have scales or clocks or yardsticks to measure progress in our sport, only each others opinions. I think that's what makes climbing unique though because it adds a 'human element' to the sport (pardon me from quoting FIFA).

    PS - I am interested in hearing feedback on some of the Quarry routes like 'Off Night', 'Anxious' and 'Eye of the Cougar' for those who like hard technical slabs or vertical face climbs. Those routes are deceptive and difficult to grade imo.
    By Andrew Freeman
    From: Brookline, MA
    Jul 19, 2010

    I admit that this felt a lot harder beta-less, and it felt considerably easier once i figured out some body-positioning stuff.

    HOWEVER! I think that calling this 5.12a is probably a little bit off. There is undoubtedly some integrity in maintaing an anti-inflationary perespective. Still, for your average sport climber waltzing up to an unknown cliff, they might be surprised at the difficulty of this "12a".

    I propose a new grading system. A route is given a grade, and a certain number of winks that indicate how much the grade should be adjusted for those used to less difficult climbing areas. A few examples:

    Who's Your Daddy: 12a wink wink
    Ganesh 5.11 wink wink wink
    Quartz Crack: 5.7 wink
    The Doggfather 5.13c minus wink wink wink wink wink wink wink
    The Prow 5.6 wink wink wink wink wink wink wink wink wink wink wink wink wink wink A0 wink

    Hopefully, this should facilitate additional confusion. For more information, please visit
    By Colin R
    From: Ottawa, ON
    Jul 19, 2010
    rating: 5.12c/d 7c 28 IX 28 E6 6b


    I like wink system, however I think I would add something that might help put this in perspective. Basically, after a long time climbing I've come to the realization that sandbagging has to be tolerated to a certain degree. Whether admitted or not, it's generally used as a way to prevent other strong climbers from elsewhere (i.e. non-locals) from coming to an area and nailing hard routes and reporting back to others. Of course there are other options like smearing axle grease on City Park (13c crack at Index WA that Todd Skinner Freed way back when) but then it sucks for everyone. Anyways, what's in it for the locals is that they get to keep climbing in their area minus the traffic of outsiders since there's not much to report about an area if you can't tick anything hard there that you could probably do someplace else. Low profile = Less Climbers. I am not saying I condone this tactic however though irritating and deceptive it still probably does keep out those who aren't really dedicated to climbing in the area and just want something hard to tick. On the other hand, I think it has to be done within reason. Routes that are wildly undergraded just don't get climbed and sometimes can be dangerous too. Maybe over time, with the land fully secured and the locals at ease with the situation, we'll actually hear of a route being upgraded for once.
    By Derek Doucet
    Jul 26, 2010
    rating: 5.12a 7a+ 25 VIII+ 25 E5 6a

    Curses, foiled again! I've deleted my posts because they might be construed as evidence supporting Colin's Bolton sandbagging conspiracy theory. Now I'll have to figure out new tactics to keep out visiting climbers, and destroy the fragile egos of those with the temerity, the cheek, the gall, the impertinence, the impudence, the audacity, the...the...nerve to come anyway.

    By Colin R
    From: Ottawa, ON
    Jul 28, 2010
    rating: 5.12c/d 7c 28 IX 28 E6 6b

    Ha ha! I love the satire!

    It doesn't matter whether I say it or someone else does, we all know it happens. My theory is nothing but conjecture at this point, take it or leave it but it's hardly a conspiracy, just my own candid assessment of human nature. I'm not saying there is something wrong with it either, quite the contrary as I think it's a perfectly acceptable way to keep crowd traffic low (insert secret masonic handshake). It's just my honest opinion....

    Also, this isn't WikiLeaks, you don't have to destroy the evidence, no one is really paying attention except us....
    By Derek Doucet
    Jul 28, 2010
    rating: 5.12a 7a+ 25 VIII+ 25 E5 6a

    The post deletion was intended as part of the humor...

    All satire aside Colin, there is no xenophobia involved. Keep in mind that a significant proportion of Bolton route developement was done by folks who grew up climbing in the Adirondacks and other older climbing areas. That is the frame of reference they apply, often quite consciously and deliberately, when proposing grades. Many of the more recently arrived Bolton climbers on the other hand appear to use other areas (primarily Rumney?) as their yardstick. So, while you can speculate about nefarious motives if you wish, the reality is much less sinister. Compare the Bolton grades to similarly rated Adirondack routes, and I think you'll find them to be quite consistent. Compare them to Rumney, on the other hand, and they may feel rather stiff.

    By Derek Doucet
    Oct 13, 2014
    rating: 5.12a 7a+ 25 VIII+ 25 E5 6a

    I pulled off the starting right side pull / thumb catch the other day. It had been loose for a while, and came off in my hand as I moved past it! Fortunately the route goes just fine without it. The first few moves are a bit more difficult, but the second clip now has a somewhat better edge for a foot. No change in grade, and still a great route.
    By Luke Bertelsen
    From: Tucson, AZ
    Aug 24, 2016
    rating: 5.12c 7b+ 27 IX- 27 E6 6b

    This route is a HOOT! An amazing boulder start leads to the crux pulling the roof. Thoughtful slab takes you a little trad-ish runout on a lichen covered bulge to finish things off. What more could you ask for?

    Also, 12a for this route is hilarious.

    The Definitive
    Climbing Resource

    Inspiration & Motivation
    to Fuel Your Run

    Next Generation Mountain
    Bike Trail Maps

    Backcountry, Sidecountry
    & Secret Stashes

    Better Data. Better Tools.
    Better Hikes!