which rope would be best for me?

Hello MP community! Please hook me up with some advice and a decision.

I recently found out what the core of a rope looks like. My Mammut Apex 10.5mm 60M standard finish rope might be done for. The damage is close to the middle plus i hate carrying that beast. I bought it after my first day leading rock. The idea was it was safe, durable and cheap. That rope was the second single i ever bought. I was leading ice on doubles at the time. Now that i have to replace the Apex I want something lighter.

I currently own Mammut Genesis 8.5mm 60M doubles, a Bluewater Icon 9.1mm 70M, a Mammut 10.2mm 50M rope for TRing and that damaged Apex. I wanna keep using a single leading rock whenever possible. The Icon is great! It's super durable for it's diameter and handles like a fatter rope. I bought it for just leading ice but the Icon has been used on rock this year too. I don't wanna lead rock with a 9.1mm rope so that stays in the rope bin.. Well til one of my hardman partners asks me to bring it. I'm appreciate their time so much they could borrow my boat if they asked. All these ropes and i still wanna go out and buy another rope.

I'm narrowed down to two ropes, the Bluewater Pulse or the Eliminator. I was thinking 60M but could be convinced 70 is the right length. I'm 253 lbs and hope i could be caught with the 9.9mm Pulse without too much slippage. I was also thinking the 10.2mm Eliminator would be safer. everyone I've asked about this hasn't told me what i want to hear so i bring this to Mountain Project. What do you think is a good choice? I'm looking for a rope between 9.9 and 10.5mm and i like Bluewater.

I'm impressed with the impact force and elongation of the Pulse. I'd never looks closely at Bluewater ropes. With time and use, ropes get to feeling fatter/fuzzier. I'd go with the 9.9mm if you'll be leading with it. Go fatter if it's mostly a TR rope.

I am a big fan of the Sterling Evolution Velocity 9.8

I bought a pulse as my first rope recently. It's a little rough in the hands and I can't speak to how well it catches a fall being as it's only taken one, and that wasn't me and WAS intentional. But I like it. It reviewed well on outdoor gear lab. Not as much experience behind my input as you might like, but that what I can tell you.

Brent Larsen wrote:I am a big fan of the Sterling Evolution Velocity 9.8

+1

i love my 9.1 joker. it's light, unicore and has a nice stretch to it for bigger falls and/or not very confidence inspiring gear. if you're not so keen on a skinny rope, check out the 9.4 and 9.8.

ze_dirtbag wrote:i love my 9.1 joker. it's light, unicore and has a nice stretch to it

I would like to understand static elongation numbers better so i could purchase a rope that does have a nice stretch to it. I've taken some falls outside on that Apex and another 10.2mm.. no big deal. I took a lead fall in the gym and almost ripped my belayer in half after i pulled him 6 feet off the ground.

It's the larger the number the more stretch right?

you might look more at dynamic elongation when thinking about falls. to my understanding, static elongation is when a force is exerted and held.....like pulling a rubber band and holding it. dynamic elongation is more like a shock load. so the lower the number, the less stretch....that keeps you off the deck on your first placement or two, however it absorbs less energy which is left to you gear to absorb. a higher number will give more stretch, so a longer fall and more absorption of the impact.

Bill Kirby wrote: I would like to understand static elongation numbers better so i could purchase a rope that does have a nice stretch to it. I've taken some falls outside on that Apex and another 10.2mm.. no big deal. I took a lead fall in the gym and almost ripped my belayer in half after i pulled him 6 feet off the ground. It's the larger the number the more stretch right?

Static elongation =/= dynamic elongation.

ze_dirtbag wrote:you might look more at dynamic elongation when thinking about falls. to my understanding, static elongation is when a force is exerted and held.....like pulling a rubber band and holding it. dynamic elongation is more like a shock load. so the lower the number, the less stretch....that keeps you off the deck on your first placement or two, however it absorbs less energy which is left to you gear to absorb. a higher number will give more stretch, so a longer fall and more absorption of the impact.

Thanks for explaining dynamic elongation. Your explanation makes me lean towards the Eliminator. The 10.2mm has a high dynamic elongation number.

Bill Kirby wrote: Thanks for explaining dynamic elongation. Your explanation makes me lean towards the Eliminator. The 10.2mm has a high dynamic elongation number.

The Eliminator has a higher impact force. The performance between the two is a fraction of a percent and probably imperceptible by the user. What is more important to you, weight or durability? The Eliminator has a thicker sheath than the Pulse but weighs more.

Here is an explanation of performance measures and standards: bealplanet.com/sport/anglai…

I have two eliminators (found one ) and love em both. Super stretchy and very durable. Still years left in them it seems.

i'd say that if you're mostly cragging with it and won't be dragging the full rope length, go with a beefy rope. if you're a sport climber in an area with generously bolted routes, i don't feel like you'd benefit a ton from the high elongation numbers. if you're a trad climber or climb ballsy sport routes, then you'd benefit from that stretch.

the one beef i have with fatter ropes (bigger than 9.8ish) is that by the time they fatten/fuzz out from use i hate the way they pull through a belay device.

before you pull the trigger on a rope, make sure you get your hands on it....how a rope feels in hand can be a game changer

Thanks Ray! That link was really helpful. I see what you mean about the two choices after reading everything on that page. I'm thinking Pulse now. I would rather save weight and take a gamble on durability. I could probably get the Pulse to stretch .2 more anyway if it did matter.

Thanks Ze Dirtbag, Good point about cragging or not. I remember the first time I felt the weight of the rope leading. I thought isn't there enough shit to worry about and now the ropes trying to pull my harness off. I'll be doing trad cragging and multipitch. I'm too fat to sport climb.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Jake Jones wrote:For a heavier climber such as yourself, you may want something with a beefier sheath, like Ray said. I have a Bluewater Pulse, and I love it. I've had it for two years and it still may see another season. With the weight, keep in mind, that it's all proportional. You're a bigger guy, so carrying a 10.2 pretty much equates to a smaller guy carrying a 9.8. And you're only carrying that weight. When you're climbing you won't really feel it unless you're doing a long pitch, because a lot of the rope's weight will be on the ground, or on your belayer (which ze also mentioned). You're going to put more stress on your rope, and thus more friction when it contacts the rock. It's inevitable. I think the 10.2 is a good choice, and you really can't go wrong with the Eliminator. Except for the name. Horrible name.

Thanks Jake, I'm all over the place and can't stop flip flopping back and forth. Your post plus the fact Ray said the 10.2 has a thicker sheath makes me decide on the Eliminator now. Plus some days I'll lead something only to setup a TR.

Eliminator is better than Dominator! I feel like that 9.4 should be used to tie up the girl I'm climbing with.

Bill Kirby wrote: Thanks Jake, I'm all over the place and can't stop flip flopping back and forth. Your post plus the fact Ray said the 10.2 has a thicker sheath makes me decide on the Eliminator now. Plus some days I'll lead something only to setup a TR. Eliminator is better than Dominator! I feel like that 9.4 should be used to tie up the girl I'm climbing with.

Fwiw, I'd buy a commodity rope and quit wasting your time. Big ropes are cheap cause their uncool.

what no one has asked you

- what type of climbing will you be doing with it? TR, trad leading on what kind of rock, sport projecting, etc ... and at what grade (or what angle or rock and how ledgy)

- what belay device will you be using? Or your partners generally

- are you more worried the rope failing from sheath abrasion, or the rope getting soft spots and wearing out from falls

;)

bearbreeder wrote:what no one has asked you - what type of climbing will you be doing with it? TR, trad leading on what kind of rock, sport projecting, etc ... and at what grade (or what angle or rock and how ledgy) - what belay device will you be using? Or your partners generally - are you more worried the rope failing from sheath abrasion, or the rope getting soft spots and wearing out from falls ;)

Yikes! I thought the three paragraphs i wrote at thd beginning would explain some of those questions. Proper English grammer is something i only try to use here so maybe none of the above made any sense.

So easy trad climbing, both multipitch and cragging between 5.3-5.7. I figured out today i would like a thicker rope for leading to setup a TR. The routes I'm doing usually don't have ledges but some do. Mostly slab. Some are steep. My partners use all kinds of different tube device devices. My regular partner, my wife likes to use a Grigri. I thought these all would good reasons plus my fat ass to use a stretchy rope. I'm open to suggestions from you. I was in Whistler for a few days in July. I thought about PMing you. Maybe next summer!

Bill Kirby wrote: Yikes! I thought the three paragraphs i wrote at thd beginning would explain some of those questions. Proper English grammer is something i only try to use here so maybe none of the above made any sense. So easy trad climbing, both multipitch and cragging between 5.3-5.7. I figured out today i would like a thicker rope for leading to setup a TR. The routes I'm doing usually don't have ledges but some do. Mostly slab. Some are steep. My partners use all kinds of different tube device devices. My regular partner, my wife likes to use a Grigri. I thought these all would good reasons plus my fat ass to use a stretchy rope. I'm open to suggestions from you. I was in Whistler for a few days in July. I thought about PMing you. Maybe next summer!

- if your wife uses a grigri make sure you get a soft and supple rope, a bit thinner also generally feeds a bit better

- for trad at that level you dont be taking repeated whippers so you dont need to worry tons about # of falls rating

- find something with a higher sheath % for lower angle trad climbing which is abrasive ... thicker ropes also help with this generally

- now as to impact force ... if you weight quite a bit your putting more force on the gear and yourself, a lower impact rope can help reduce that ... it also reduces the felt force by the belayer a small amount

- BUT ... lower impact force ropes are generally stretchier both in the dynamic and static tests ... and those are for 80kg weights, which means itll stretch quite a bit more if yr heavier, and if your belayer is lighter shell go shooting up if not anchored down ... this means potential broken ankles even when following or TRing if you fall early (static stretch)

my general recommendation is for moderate easy climbing to have something with a moderate to "higher" impact force but less stretch to reduce the possibility of hitting a ledge/deck through stretch ... and for harder climbing where the falls are cleaner and you fall alot more, or trad with sketchy gear, to have a "lower" impact stretchier rope

but then yr weight is a factor too

the rope suppleness is a major factor when using a grigri ... if the rope is stiff and feeds poorly then the belayer is forced to use the "fast feed" method all the time holding down the cam with the associated risks

however too thin, slick and supple a rope and catching with a tube can be harder with yr weight

ropes are all a matter of tradeoffs ... you just need to decide what matters more

;)

heres the basic rope advice i usually give folks ...

beginner rope advice ...

- get around a 10mm +/- 0.2mm (the UIAA allowed variation on rope "diameter")

- better yet look at the weight/metre ... something between 60-70 g/m, more on the higher end for durability ... its a more accurate measurement

- you dont need dry treated ... while the treatment might help the rope last slightly longer, it will wear off in around 100 pitches of heavy use ... especially if you are hangdogging and TRing

- you dont need duodess or bi-pattern ... youll pay $$$$ for it and as a beginner you should practice finding the middle the old fashion way, from both ends ... cause one of these days youll be on someone elses rope, assume the middle is accurate and not realize its been chopped ... learn the basic skills before the fancy gear

- if you do want a middle mark ... it is MUCH easier to see a black middle mark with those fancy bright color ropes, also when rapping its easier to see if those bright coloured ropes are on the ground especially as it gets dark ... i never buy dark coloured ropes anymore

- you should not spend $$$$$ on fancy ropes ... you will trash your first rope within a few seasons ... get something cheap and durable

- if a 60m is on an extreme sale then get a 60, else if its only a bit more get a 70m ... ropes that take constant whippers often wear out from the ends first, you can chop the rope and still have a 60m .... also on multi the extra 10m can make some rope stretcher raps safer ... check people who actually climb in your area as to if a 70m is required or better for the climbs ... also remember that a rope shrinks with use and washes

thats the basics ... now the more "advanced" stuff

- if you are using a grigri, smart or other assisted locking device get a supple rope ... known supple ropes include beal, tendon, sterling, some edelrids, etc ... this is something that **is not in most descriptions** ... only talking to people who actually use the ropes extensively will tell you this ... thicker maxims and mammuts are known as stiff ropes in comparison to the previous brands, they will work fine in assisted locking devices if thin enough, or when new enough, but ropes tend to get stiffer with age and tend to be a biatch to feed (forcing folks to use the "quick feed" method of belaying a gri gri for normal belaying which carries its own risks)

- ask yourself whether you are more likely to get hurt hitting a ledge or getting spiked by a hard catch in the type of climbing you are doing ... if the former get a low stretch/higher impact rope like a maxim or mammut ... if the latter get a higher stretch/lower impact rope such as beal ... also remember that for TRing lower stretch may be better as the difference between a beal vs maxim on static stretch alone on a 60m climb (10% vs. 5%) is ~9 feet ... which can mean a broken ankle

- if you are doing climbs where abrasion is the main concern for rope wear then get something with a high sheath % ... if its from going flat from too many falls, get one rated for a high number of UIAA falls (some redditors will undoubtably protest that it does not matter, it does, but to prevent senseless arguments ill simply post up mammuts view on the matter below, they know a thing or two about ropes)

highinfatuation.com/blog/st…

- if climbing trad a softer catching low impact rope may be beneficial for marginal gear ... again to prevent senseless arguments ill simply post the beal numbers, which is based off CAI (italian alpine club research) models

bealplanet.com/sport/anglai…

and finally talk to folks with practical use and who owns different types of ropes ... guides, route developers, folks who climb daily, etc ...

while quite a few people can give you an opinion of the rope or two they may have owned ... not all that many can give you a comparison between several different current brands and models and which they use extensively

Bill Kirby wrote: My regular partner, my wife likes to use a Grigri.

Since you weigh over 200lbs, a thinner rope would be more painful ropeburn on your wife's hands for lowering you on a single pitch, unless she's wearing gloves, since when lowering with a gri-gri she needs one hand to pull the lever back, which leaves one hand to control the descent. I realized this when lowering my 205lb partner on a 9.2 mm rope. A fatter rope feels better for that, and as another posters said, for catching falls with a tube.

In case you were considering the belayer.

My 10.2 mm Beal flyer II may have a fat spec by today's standards, but it has a hard sturdy sheath and doesn't seem like it will fuzz up (someone's 9.9 mm rope fuzzed up and felt even fatter than mine). I also have a 9.2 mm nano 70m which I save for routes requiring 70m or multipitch for the rappels, but I feel that the 10.2 will last longer even though I weigh half of what you do (cuz I am really short). Also, the 9.2mm is tougher to untie after a fall.

If I were you I'd go with the 10.2 Eliminator.

Christiney wrote: Since you weigh over 200lbs, a thinner rope would be more painful ropeburn on your wife's hands for lowering you on a single pitch, unless she's wearing gloves, since when lowering with a gri-gri she needs one hand to pull the lever back, which leaves one hand to control the descent. I realized this when lowering my 205lb partner on a 9.1mm rope. A fatter rope feels better for that.

Haha.. i already figured that out last winter. I use a 9.1mm Icon when leading ice. We setup a top rope to run some laps. My friend weighs half what i do. He ended up walking 100 feet away then 100 feet back to lower me.

Kathy uses gloves but i would never subject her the torture of TRing with a skinny rope.

Hey BB, so what you think about the Bluewater Eliminator? mountaingear.com/webstore/G… This or the Pulse were recommended by a guide and another two friends who climb in the Dacks.