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What is this world coming to?!?

Original Post
Adam Brink · · trying to get to Sardinia · Joined Mar 2001 · Points: 560

I've seen the decline of civilization and I have to speak out against it. For two weekends in a row now aid climbers have been hoarding Country Club Crack (one of the most popular free climbs in Colorado) for hours on end during perfect sunny weekend days. Today there were actually aid climbers waiting in line behind more aid climbers to spend countless hours standing on gear in one of the best free climbs anywhere while free climbing parters beyond number shook their heads and walked away. One party last weekend took 4 hours (!) to aid half of the second pitch.

What is happening to climbing in Boulder?!?! This cannot be stood for! A stance must be made. Great free climbing classics should not be used as aid practice on perfect Fall weekends. It is wrong and selfish! What moral obscenities will be allowed next?

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35

Everyone has already climbed it. Let the aid climbers have it.

Rich Farnham · · Nederland, CO · Joined Aug 2002 · Points: 297
adam brink wrote:...For two weekends in a row now aid climbers have been hoarding Country Club Crack (one of the most popular free climbs in Colorado) for hours on end during perfect sunny weekend days...
It's more than just the last two weekends. I've seen the number go WAY up this year, and it's pretty annoying. Many Saturdays this summer, and a number of weekday evenings.

Come on people. Go do the aid roof. You'll actually learn more about aid climbing, and you won't be hogging one of the best climbs in the canyon for hours. Or come do the thing in winter when it's too cold to free climb. You can still aid climb in a few layers and have a great time on a cold day.

Maybe we should develop a list of other easily aidable routes to spread people out a bit? I don't have time to put that list together at the moment, but I think it would help. I'll give it some thought. If we come up with a few routes, we could probably get a note added to the country club page on MP.
Brian C. · · Longmont, CO · Joined Feb 2010 · Points: 1,100

Free climbers having their buddy lead the pitch and then spend hours having all their homies top-roping it and hogging it so the aid climbers can't practice their stick-clipping abilities right off the ground???? What a world!

Ha. Seriously though. What happened to the world of first come first serve? There are lots of other climbs out there for both aid climbers and free climbers that getting bent out of shape is a little silly. I do have to admit that although I've met alot of considerate climbers on both free and aid lines that are more than happy to share routes/let speedy parties pass, I've also seen some real asses that are route hogs and jerks about it so I understand the other side as well.

I think that some aid peeps simply so CCC just because it's one of the only routes that I've seen be frequently recommended in BC and don't know what else to do. Aid Roof is cool, but not a good place to practice anything other than overhanging aiding which is only a small part of it. A better list of possible easy practice aid routes would spread people out.

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

Why can't the aid climbers climb Aid Roof on the north side of Castle Rock instead? They can work on their roof traversing skills. I spent five hours on that crack once years ago solo aiding and not once did someone come by saying they wanted to free climb it.

Rob Dillon · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 760

Make the list and put it out there, then, if you want this problem to go away. A similar deal is floating around on Supertopo and I think it works pretty well to steer aid gumbies to obscure cracks. Eventually people get the idea but you have to put it out there for awhile for it to take hold.

The Blueprint Part Dank · · FEMA Region VIII · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 460

Based on the title. I assumed this thread was going to be about the CIA funding ISIS/ISIL

The Blueprint Part Dank · · FEMA Region VIII · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 460

Maybe do this list as you head east to west up the canyon?

I'll start:

1. Elephant Buttresses. "Classic finger crack" and "Tough Situation" both get very little traffic and while not epic aid lines all to themselves, they'd be good for practice.
2. Cob Rock. "Aid Crack" pretty self explanatory there.

Those are the first couple I think of, I've gotta go climbing now, but I'll think of some more, hopefully you all can two. I'll be more than happy to organic all the suggestions on the thread into a good list that I'll shoot over to the admin for the CCC page.

Cheers.

NC Rock Climber · · The Oven, AKA Phoenix · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 60

First come, first served. If someone is on the climb you want, tough shit. Get up earlier and get there first. Or, go find another climb. There are 100's of pitches out there. Aid, trad, fast, slow... whatever. There is room for everyone and you have NO right to dictate how another person climbs on a public resource or superior claim just because you are faster.

That just my opinion, and for the record I think aid climbing sucks.

Hi Todd!

James Dean Anderson · · Longmont, CO · Joined May 2013 · Points: 146

I have to speak out and provide an alternate point of view on this subject. I was in one of the two aid groups on Saturday and we showed up to the crag early and headed to CCC. Our plan was to aid the first pitch and continue up if nobody else showed up looking to free it. Shortly after another group (of free climbers) rolled up and asked what we were going to climb. We told them we had planned to aid CCC but told them that they could go first since they were free climbing. Seemed fair to us since CCC is a classic free climb. The first climber in-group then proceeded to lead the route and lower to the ground with every fall/ hang (to get the red point). After he arrived at the anchor he started lowering and cleaning his gear so his partner could do the same. At this point we were a little irritated because we had already waited for an hour and thought one person would lead then the other would follow. I would estimate that this free climbing group tied up the route for at least 2.5 hours. At this point we had had enough so we told the girls that were also waiting to aid CCC that we were heading to the practice roof where we wouldn’t get in the way and could actually get in some climbing. I think that my group did everything that we could to be fair and give the free climbers precedence but where can we draw the line? Is tying up a route for 2.5 hours for a free ascent any better than 2.5 hours for an aid ascent? Who is to say that that aid climbers cannot also enjoy a route that happens to be an excellent aid line as well? I am not saying that aid climbers are entitled to back up free lines all day but I do think that everyone should have the opportunity to hone their skills, whatever they may be. Not everyone after all can climb 5.11 trad but does this mean they should stay off everything they cannot free climb? If this were the case hardly anyone would be “allowed” to climb the walls in Zion, Yosemite, etc. The main point is that people need to be more respectful to those around them at the crags. The arrogance and sense of entitlement that I have seen at the crags recently makes me sick. I think that most of us started climbing because it is fun, no sense in overcomplicating it with senseless ethics and saying other styles are wrong (unless they damage the rock, etc).

The Blueprint Part Dank · · FEMA Region VIII · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 460
James Dean Anderson wrote:I have to speak out and provide an alternate point of view on this subject. I was in one of the two aid groups on Saturday and we showed up to the crag early and headed to CCC. Our plan was to aid the first pitch and continue up if nobody else showed up looking to free it. Shortly after another group (of free climbers) rolled up and asked what we were going to climb. We told them we had planned to aid CCC but told them that they could go first since they were free climbing. Seemed fair to us since CCC is a classic free climb. The first climber in-group then proceeded to lead the route and lower to the ground with every fall/ hang (to get the red point). After he arrived at the anchor he started lowering and cleaning his gear so his partner could do the same. At this point we were a little irritated because we had already waited for an hour and thought one person would lead then the other would follow. I would estimate that this free climbing group tied up the route for at least 2.5 hours. At this point we had had enough so we told the girls that were also waiting to aid CCC that we were heading to the practice roof where we wouldn’t get in the way and could actually get in some climbing. I think that my group did everything that we could to be fair and give the free climbers precedence but where can we draw the line? Is tying up a route for 2.5 hours for a free ascent any better than 2.5 hours for an aid ascent? Who is to say that that aid climbers cannot also enjoy a route that happens to be an excellent aid line as well? I am not saying that aid climbers are entitled to back up free lines all day but I do think that everyone should have the opportunity to hone their skills, whatever they may be. Not everyone after all can climb 5.11 trad but does this mean they should stay off everything they cannot free climb? If this were the case hardly anyone would be “allowed” to climb the walls in Zion, Yosemite, etc. The main point is that people need to be more respectful to those around them at the crags. The arrogance and sense of entitlement that I have seen at the crags recently makes me sick. I think that most of us started climbing because it is fun, no sense in overcomplicating it with senseless ethics and saying other styles are wrong (unless they damage the rock, etc).
Well, I get the feeling that the OP would probably respect your actions and attitude. Because you were courteous to others and moved on to something else.

I challenge anyone to make an argument that the two people who tied up the route trying for the red point deserved to be on the route more than you did. They hogged if as much if not more than an aid climber would if your description of events is accurate.

There is no reason that multiple groups of people can't aid and free climb country club crack in the same day if no one is a douche bag

But, I could be wrong. there's an incredibly strong "private crag" aura to the place, after all, we are talking about the "Country Club" Crack here, so I'm sure that someone will soon provide an argument that very few of us should really get to climb there.
Max Supertramp · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 95

so the beta on Country Club Crack is 3" pins, right?

Ben Walburn · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 680

For those of you who don't know Adam, his character is far beyond reproach and I agree with him. Do we not as a community exalt the free climb? The guide books read as follows a) the name b) the grade c) the style and d) who did it.

Style has been picked over with a fine toothed comb throughout the history of the activity and respect has always been given to the purest form. If this wasn't the case then The Naked Edge would be a sport climb. If this town (or any) has people waiting in line to free climb a route as classic as CCC then it should be understood that aid climbing it on a coveted autumn weekend is a NoNo. There are plenty of cracks to aid around here but there are very, very few crack climbs this good to enjoy free climbing.

A.B. we need to get out.

marty funkhouser · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 20

Aiding classic free climbs has never been good form. You don't show up in Yosemite and expect to aid New Dimensions or Butterballs. Legal weed has made you Coloradbros too damn mellow.

England · · Colorado Springs · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 270
adam brink wrote:I've seen the decline of civilization and I have to speak out against it. For two weekends in a row now aid climbers have been hoarding Country Club Crack (one of the most popular free climbs in Colorado) for hours on end during perfect sunny weekend days. Today there were actually aid climbers waiting in line behind more aid climbers to spend countless hours standing on gear in one of the best free climbs anywhere while free climbing parters beyond number shook their heads and walked away. One party last weekend took 4 hours (!) to aid half of the second pitch. What is happening to climbing in Boulder?!?! This cannot be stood for! A stance must be made. Great free climbing classics should not be used as aid practice on perfect Fall weekends. It is wrong and selfish! What moral obscenities will be allowed next?
You sound like you're from Boulder.
Steven Bishop · · Denver, CO · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 125
The Blueprint Part Dank wrote:Based on the title. I assumed this thread was going to be about the CIA funding ISIS/ISIL
This is pretty damn funny! ( the comment i mean..not the situation) I had the same thought.

Fuckin' climbers are so damn MeloDramAAAAAATIC!~!! ahhaha

chill out...you are climbing a rock
GabeO · · Boston, MA · Joined May 2006 · Points: 302
CJC wrote:BoCan has become a n00btastic joke. CCC is a free climb. don't be a douche and aid it on a Saturday esp if you're just learning. Practice your aid on something that's not a 5 star destination free climb on the busiest day of the week. Can't believe you have to be told this. Wow lol derp
Seriously. Aid climbing is great, and I've done plenty of it. One of the great things about aiding is that you can do it in the rain and when it's too cold to free climb. Aiding a classing free climb in nice weather is a total douche move.

GO
Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,665
Rich Farnham wrote: Or come do the thing in winter when it's too cold to free climb.
Heh- you think it's unclimbable in Winter?
Try it in late July!
S Denny · · Aspen, CO · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 20
marty funkhouser wrote:Aiding classic free climbs has never been good form. You don't show up in Yosemite and expect to aid New Dimensions or Butterballs. Legal weed has made you Coloradbros too damn mellow.
Straight up and down.
Jeff McLeod · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 45

I guess it's technically first come first served, but I think informally it's a pretty dick move to hog a route for a long time when there are other people waiting to climb it, whether you're aiding or freeing it. This isn't really that tough of a concept to grasp. I think we all learned how to share in kindergarden right?

I was learning how to aid this past winter and spring and found that Regular Route on Practice Rock (as mentioned before) was very helpful in getting more comfortable weighting protection in pin scars. Another route that I found fun and challenging to aid was Thunderdome at Easter Rock. This one seems to be more popular so obviously I would have deferred to any psyched party who wanted to try and free it if they showed up, because I was aid soloing and taking as long as I wanted. This route is also good if you are practicing your jugging skills, because you can rig a nice long free-hanging line from the top of the route and even practice when it's raining since this section of the wall is so overhanging.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35

If the story above is true, the free climbers douched themselves all over the 4' slab section at the bottom for 2.5 hours while the aid climbers tried to be polite and waited.

I've got news for you, the free climbers caused the traffic jam. Had they gone and worked something more their ability (I'm thinking Cussin Crack), the aiders would have been rapping off by the time the OP showed up.

Gumby free climbers who cannot climb a route don't have any right to occupy it just because their shoes are sticky. Remember the aiders stepped aside to let these incompetents on and they are getting blasted online for their trouble. Fuck that.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Colorado
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