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What is the most classic, moderate trade route you have retrobolted?
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By Craig Martin
From Park City
Nov 4, 2010
Captain Cairn kicker

Just curious?

I am all for the development of "Pleasure Climbs". I climb them often and enjoy them for what they are. But I do have a problem with the retrobolting of a classic line that was already well protected into an overbolted clip up.

I took my wife up to do Western Grebe yesterday. She had never lead any of the pitches and was game to do so. She had psyched herself up for what she thought would be a classic LCC slabfest. Halfway up the first pitch she says "some of these bolts have fresh rock dust under them". I say "must be ASCA" and she says "no the ASCA stamped bolts have no dust around them, it is these other brand new bolts with the dust, inbetween the ASCA bolts". She then says "ahh, I get it it has been retrobolted, well this sure takes the mental game out of leading LCC slabs". A true but sad story. She had fun.....but was somewhat let down afterwards. I don't blame her.


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By zoso
Nov 4, 2010
avatar

Not to mention all the original bolts were appropriately spaced. The route was not run out in the least. And I'm not even talking old school vs. new standards. This seems like s000meone is trying to pick a fight to me, but who knows?


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By kBobby
From Spokane, WA
Nov 4, 2010

I am going to preemptively reply to the forthcoming

Someone in the future wrote:
Just don't clip them if you don't want them.


I just went up the the Fin and glued on a bunch of holds. I figured it would be much more pleasant as a 5.6 ridge climb. Of course, you can just not use those plastic holds if you don't like them. It's cool, right?


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By Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Nov 4, 2010
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "Alan Nelson's Bulging Belly" (5.10, X) on the Lost and Found Flatiron. Belayer is Mark Ruocco. Photo by Bill Wright, 10/06.

Furthermore, (to pre-argue the counter-point) If you don't like someone's litter by the sidewalk, just don't pick it up... and it shouldn't bother you. Right?


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By Boissal
From Small Lake, UT
Nov 4, 2010

Here we go again. Why are there new bolts all over Tingeys? Why did the halfway belay on Satan need 15' of chain? Why were signs chipped in boulders to indicate the egg/waterfall/surperslab? Why do the 5.0 slabs that used to be known as the schoolroom walk-off/rap now sport dozens of bolts? Why are the West Slabs covered in more steel than most chosspiles in AF? How come the Sundial came so close to having bolted anchors? Cause we have a major dick problem on our hands...

This thread: about to get locked.


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By Greg G
From SLC, UT
Nov 4, 2010
The route in it's entirety.

chopchop


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By esha
Nov 4, 2010

if you don't like them then don't clip them, oh wait a minute.....


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By kBobby
From Spokane, WA
Nov 4, 2010

Boissal wrote:
Why did the halfway belay on Satan need 15' of chain?


Seriously? Ugh!


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By CalmAdrenaline
From SL,UT
Nov 4, 2010
Oregon Coast Bouldering

Im willing to donate my time and crowbar.


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By Greg G
From SLC, UT
Nov 4, 2010
The route in it's entirety.

i just read a thread on supertopo.com on how to properly chop bolts.


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By Boissal
From Small Lake, UT
Nov 4, 2010

Craig Martin wrote:
This isn't fight club is it? We are allowed to talk about this type of shit right?

Last time a closely related topic was brought up it lasted 3 days and was locked. Admittedly it had turned to the usual name-calling crap but what else is there to do? We ALL agree that fuckface's actions are unacceptable, there's no disagreement whatsoever. Fuckface cherry picks the posts he wants to answer and twists the argument in a completely irrelevant way so there's no point in arguing about his actions: he won't explain himself and if he did it wouldn't make any sense. Dude has lost his mind, end of the story.

Why don't we start a thread to coordinate bolt-removal volunteers instead? He's not gonna stop being a dick so let's round up a bunch of people in a semi-organized fashion and get some work done.

Oh, and before some soft-eared twat gets offended: fuck guideline #1.


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By Drew Spaulding
From Boulder, CO
Nov 4, 2010
Lowering out on the Mescalito... '94

I lived and climbed in SLC for 5 years.... what's going on over there? Who's doing that shit? Just wondering cause I had a Salt Lake climber place an anchor in the middle of a desert pitch I had established years ago... disappointing to say the least


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By Greg G
From SLC, UT
Nov 4, 2010
The route in it's entirety.

www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=197138&msg=32>>>


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By Greg G
From SLC, UT
Nov 4, 2010
The route in it's entirety.

that route was my first 5.8 slab climb and I've gone back to to it about 4 other times since then, and I have never once thought it to be run out. the new bolts are gonna be gone quick.


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By Boissal
From Small Lake, UT
Nov 4, 2010

Clay Borne wrote:

Clay, those were rhetorical questions man, but thanks for the clarification :)

Regarding the chipped boulders, it was not claimed directly but justified in a way that leaves no doubt about the identity of the perpetrator (2nd hand info from people I trust 100%).

As for the Sundial, it was going to be the work of the person you also think of (again, 2nd hand info from solid sources).

The West Slabs are the one instance I can think of where someone else is involved and he made no secret of it. He might be a dick but we're talking about an entirely different caliber of dick.

Bolt fever is an interesting term. I don't think too many people have caught it. It seems like all the bolts that have sprouted in places where they're considered out of place were removed promptly (think Geezer and notice the similarly dickish attitude that came with the rebolting/epoxying).
On the other hand a number of the bolted lines that have been put up recently have been drilled on lead in good style and I don't think that has ever been an issue in the Wasatch. Some fierce trad lines have also gone down that would have been bolted had they been scoped by people with smaller nuts or different ethics...

No, I think we don't have too many dicks around.


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By Tea
Nov 4, 2010
just Jong it!

Boissal wrote:
No, I think we don't have too many dicks around.


one dick head with a power drill, is still one dick too many. This is fooking egregious.

That pitch was NOT runout. it's called CLIMBING, and 5.8 at that!!!....(shaking head in total disgust)

this shit is completely unacceptable, regardless of who is doing it.

what the fook is goin on around here?


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By Sir Camsalot
From thankgodchickenhead, Ut
Nov 4, 2010

Clay Borne wrote:
Like this: www.mountainproject.com/v/utah/wasatch_range/little_cottonwo>>> or this retro bolted route: www.mountainproject.com/v/utah/wasatch_range/little_cottonwo>>> It dosen't need it, and it never has. For 30 years, there has been slings hanging there, and slings removed. Time for chain to disappear as well. Without exception, that act of vandalism should not be tolerated. Did anyone ever claim this?? The schoolroom area (walk off, and surprisingly others) are the work of the person you are thinking about. They are extensions to Schoolroom and The Rumba routes. The FA party feels they offer more moderate ground and longer pitches. I have not climbed these yet, so I have no idea if they are truly "valid" routes or "EGO" gone wild. The West Slabs have bolts from the person you are thinking of, and from other people as well. Anchors originally placed were for a guide service, and it opened pandoras box for the rest of the world. They are not needed, and never were. It seems that there is more than one person who is causing this problem. There are all sorts of routes that are being bolted now that were done ages ago by other climbers. Just because climbers from the past climbed these lines without placing bolts, does not make it valid for others to retro bolt them. They chose to climb for the adventure of it, not to quickly publish cheap guides to fund their further need to bolt more. I know that the route Stifflers Mom has had an interesting history. Even the FA party admits to finding slings on different trees in the area. That very route may have been done in the late 80's by climbers just enjoying a summers day, and didn't want to waste time cleaning all the cracks, or posting some ego-centrical FA note. What ever the case, it is now a great, clean line that is a wonderful contribution to the Wasatch area. The Wasatch climbing area does not have one DICK, it has many. It seems that everyone who owns a power drill is getting "bolt Fever" Bolts are a great way to protect climbs that may never be climbed without, but they seem to be more a SIGNATURE MARK for most FA parties to "mark their turf".


Hi Tony, please stop retro-bolting everything and then creating multiple accounts to draw criticism away from you. Too many similarities here to the TC posts we all used to enjoy so much. Defending the Schoolroom retrobolt as "route extensions" and then reminding us all about your boner for the Stiffler's saga kinda gave you away. But I gotta admit, Clay Borne is a better name than Michael Larue.


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By zoso
Nov 4, 2010
avatar

Boissal wrote:
We ALL agree that fuckface's actions are unacceptable, there's no disagreement whatsoever. Fuckface cherry picks the posts he wants to answer and twists the argument in a completely irrelevant way so there's no point in arguing about his actions: he won't explain himself and if he did it wouldn't make any sense. Dude has lost his mind, end of the story. Why don't we start a thread to coordinate bolt-removal volunteers instead? He's not gonna stop being a dick so let's round up a bunch of people in a semi-organized fashion and get some work done.



This is exactly what I was thinking. By responding to FF's behavior, we are (unfortunetly) only feeding into his psychosis. And the behavior will undoubtedly only get worse.

+1 for organized bolt removal party


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By Price
From SLC, UT
Nov 4, 2010

MW - Clinic time?


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By bsmoot
Nov 4, 2010
Me in the 70's

If Bill Robins were still around, those new bolts on Western Grebe wouldn't have lasted a day.


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By Sunny-D
From SLC, Utah
Nov 4, 2010
Top of Jah-Man Sister Superior

Stop F'ing with exsiting lines. There is a lot of untouched rock all around Utah that you can have all the FA's that you want on. If you (whoever) is doing it to make routes easier to guide or "safer" to climb then you are setting a horrible example for clients and community alike. Just stop already...


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By markmaguire
Nov 4, 2010

Craig Martin wrote:
Just curious? I am all for the development of "Pleasure Climbs". I climb them often and enjoy them for what they are. But I do have a problem with the retrobolting of a classic line that was already well protected into an overbolted clip up. I took my wife up to do Western Grebe yesterday. She had never lead any of the pitches and was game to do so. She had psyched herself up for what she thought would be a classic LCC slabfest. Halfway up the first pitch she says "some of these bolts have fresh rock dust under them". I say "must be ASCA" and she says "no the ASCA stamped bolts have no dust around them, it is these other brand new bolts with the dust, inbetween the ASCA bolts". She then says "ahh, I get it it has been retrobolted, well this sure takes the mental game out of leading LCC slabs". A true but sad story. She had fun.....but was somewhat let down afterwards. I don't blame her.

i did it
so so what. is nothing els wrong in your life that your worried about some bolts?


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By markmaguire
Nov 4, 2010

news flash"their just rocks"


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By mikewhite
Nov 4, 2010
  Third bolt on last pitch of cheetah

Years ago Bill Robbins called me because he had heard that I was working on his routes.

He was veary thankfull for the work and kinda asked me to look out for his routes.
He said no new bolts and I could do as I like with any rebolting.
Like replaceing pins with bolts ect...

I gota move this weekend, but after that I will be teaching a clinic on the fine art of (edit for tony) REMOVAL OR UNSCREWING OF METAL FROM ROCK and patching. Yes power tools and torches will be part of the class.

This shit has got to stop. tony claimed to have spent two grand on hardware in lcc just this year.


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By Greg G
From SLC, UT
Nov 4, 2010
The route in it's entirety.

2 grand! i would buy a lot of mexican food with that money.


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By markmaguire
Nov 5, 2010

Willa wrote:
I just finished bolting the Casual Route on The Diamond. It took forever! Now you don't have to carry all that trad gear bull shit...SPORT 4 LYFE!!!!!!!!

now your thinkin


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