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What is Happening to the V-Scale?

Original Post
JSlack · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 155

So, Adam Ondra just did a first ascent that he is rating V16. He describes it as 3 moves of V10, 4 moves of V13, 3 moves of V8, then 2 moves of V12. What is happening to the V-scale? I was under the impression that a boulder problem was rated based on the single hardest move on the problem. That would make this V16 a V13, right?

I'm not trying to bag on Adam Ondra. He is certainly not the first or only climber to rate boulder problems this way. It just seems to me that the V-rating system is being treated more and more like the YDS. WTF? Am I way off base here?

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103

well, obviously 10 moves of V10 is going to be a helluva lot harder than one move of V10. the rating takes into account the amount of effort required to send it. think of it in terms of the total area under a curve, as opposed to the peak value of the curve.

cjdrover · · Watertown, MA · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 355
Jake Sahl wrote:So, Adam Ondra just did a first ascent that he is rating V16. He describes it as 3 moves of V10, 4 moves of V13, 3 moves of V8, then 2 moves of V12. What is happening to the V-scale? I was under the impression that a boulder problem was rated based on the single hardest move on the problem. That would make this V16 a V13, right? I'm not trying to bag on Adam Ondra. He is certainly not the first or only climber to rate boulder problems this way. It just seems to me that the V-rating system is being treated more and more like the YDS. WTF? Am I way off base here?
The irony is that YDS also was originally intended to only reflect the hardest move on the route. Makes sense when you consider the context, but as standards have gone up it has become obvious that the difficult of the single hardest move is often not a reliable measure of how hard something is, be it on routes or boulder problems.

Edited: Found the description.

climbingczar.lt11.com/about-2/

Argue at will!
Francisco Di Poi · · Boulder, CO · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 20

He onsights 14c....he can do what he wants. He can make up his own Ondra Decimal System (ODS) if he wants to. Based on ODS, the difficulty of the route will be directly related to the decibels of his whining when he falls.

koreo · · Denver, CO · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 85
Francisco Di Poi wrote:Based on ODS, the difficulty of the route will be directly related to the decibels of his whining when he falls.
+1

LOL. Awesome. I've often wondered if anybody else found his little girl tantrums fucking annoying.
koreo · · Denver, CO · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 85
Willa wrote: He could still crimp your face off and eat it in between bouts of onsighting 5.14c...little girl tantrums and all.
He can climb harder than me, of course but I really doubt he could go toe to toe with me if that's what you're implying. Even with the little girl tantrums.
BackCountry Sortor · · Ogden, UT · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 400
slim wrote: the total area under a curve, as opposed to the peak value of the curve.
Nice explanation.
Josh Kornish · · Whitefish, MT · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 800
koreo wrote: +1 LOL. Awesome. I've often wondered if anybody else found his little girl tantrums fucking annoying.
I think we all agree on that one
-sp · · East-Coast · Joined May 2007 · Points: 75
koreo wrote: He can climb harder than me, of course but I really doubt he could go toe to toe with me if that's what you're implying. Even with the little girl tantrums.
Kick his ass Sea Bass.

And for the record, I think his little girl tantrums are insulting to little girls. *

* there, I said it.
koreo · · Denver, CO · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 85
-sp wrote: Kick his ass Sea Bass. And for the record, I think his little girl tantrums are insulting to little girls. * * there, I said it.
lol
Josh Kornish · · Whitefish, MT · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 800
David Sahalie wrote: he sounds like a cow being eviscerated
haha
bradyk · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 141

Bouldering Math

V5 + V7 = V9

Try climbing a V whatever, down climb it and do it again. It will obviously be harder the second time up. That is why V13 moves feel like V16 after you have done the prior section of a few V10 moves, a few V12 moves, and so on.

Power Endurance

ZANE · · Cleveland, OH · Joined May 2011 · Points: 20

So, with that logic, a problem with term v2 moves in a row is probably a v10. See how that doesn't really work?

Sam Lightner, Jr. · · Lander, WY · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 2,732

It is the V-Scale... its probably drunk.

JPVallone · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 195

It's called V-Jaculation, it's the only way you can stroke your V-Go

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103
ZANE wrote:So, with that logic, a problem with term v2 moves in a row is probably a v10. See how that doesn't really work?
it isn't really a linear scale like that. a problem with 10 V2 moves in a row is probably v3 (for the sake of argument, let's assume so). a problem with 10 V3 moves in a row would probably be in the V4 range, etc. a problem with 1E8 moves in a row (with no rest) would likely be V10.

or, a problem with 10 V9 moves in a row might be V10.

or, a problem with 1 V10 move might be V10.
Brendan Blanchard · · Boulder, CO · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 590
koreo wrote: +1 LOL. Awesome. I've often wondered if anybody else found his little girl tantrums fucking annoying.
Can't stand them.
Brendan N · · Salt Lake City, Utah · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 405
s.price wrote: You are so missing the point of climbing . . . . Seems Adam misses the point as well, tossing wobblers like a little girl who lost the latest beauty paegent.
Are you really telling Adam Ondra that he doesn't get the point of climbing?
tenesmus · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2004 · Points: 3,023


So by this scale,
French = YDS = V???
6a+ = 5.10b = V3
7a = 5.11c/d = V5
8a = 5.13b = V11

Do I have this right? A lot of times I grade new routes I do based on the hardest boulder problem. For instance, Early Bird has a couple of V3 and V4 sections with a V5 finish. So I called it .12a/b?
I never know how to do this kind of stuff but that's how I came to it. Also, what if the final boulder problem has kind of a runnout but with great gear?

Do I have to get all British to make sense of it?
Monomaniac · · Morrison, CO · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 17,295
tenesmus wrote: So by this scale, French = YDS = V??? 6a+ = 5.10b = V3 7a = 5.11c/d = V5 8a = 5.13b = V11 Do I have this right? A lot of times I grade new routes I do based on the hardest boulder problem. For instance, Early Bird has a couple of V3 and V4 sections with a V5 finish. So I called it .12a/b? I never know how to do this kind of stuff but that's how I came to it. Also, what if the final boulder problem has kind of a runnout but with great gear? Do I have to get all British to make sense of it?
No, you're confusing "Font" grades with French route grades. Font grades apply only to boulder problems. They use the same nomenclature but mean different things. Some people use capital letters when refering to font grades, so a Vll boulder problem would be "8A" and an .13b route would be "8a".
Matt Sedor · · portland, or · Joined Jan 2008 · Points: 25
Brendan Blanchard wrote: Can't stand them.
Wobblers are cool. Where the hell did you learn how to climb?
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Bouldering
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