Waimea--an eliminate?

So after clipping the chains on Waimea, the very fine '5.10d' at Rumney today, I congratulated myself on the onsight...but perhaps prematurely. At the 4th bolt, I had stepped right and put a hand in the crack, shaking out my left after clipping. I then continued up the crimps, clipping the 5th bolt and finishing the route.

After lowering off, I checked out my trusty Ward Smith Rumney climbing guide and I wondered whether I'd just done 'Waimea the Weenie Way,' (only rated 10c) due to my use of the crack to cop a rest.

Then I thought what the fuck? I climb the line of least resistance, clip all the bolts, top out the route--it's not like I traversed over to the no-hands rest on surf's up. IMHO, Waimea is either (A) an eliminate at 10d, or (B) should be downgraded to 10c to reflect the most efficient sequence along the bolted line.

I guess it was just easier to make up a squeeze job variation with a pejorative title than downgrading a moderate classic -- that could bruise some egos.

..........

You must have been in the gym quite a bit lately.

Honestly you onsighted the route and it doesn't truly matter if you rested in a crack.

I had a similar incident where I was at the last move of onsighting a .12a and the move is out way left to a jug used by the route which was squeezed in. I didn't want to use the jug and not truly onsight the route so I opted out and tried a direct move which gave me some airtime.

Once again it doesn't matter

Oh, it matters alright. Is the thing 10c OR 10d? The people must know!

Eric Chabot wrote:So after clipping the chains on Waimea, the very fine '5.10d' at Rumney today, I congratulated myself on the onsight...but perhaps prematurely. At the 4th bolt, I had stepped right and put a hand in the crack, shaking out my left after clipping. I then continued up the crimps, clipping the 5th bolt and finishing the route. After lowering off, I checked out my trusty Ward Smith Rumney climbing guide and I wondered whether I'd just done 'Waimea the Weenie Way,' (only rated 10c) due to my use of the crack to cop a rest. Then I thought what the fuck? I climb the line of least resistance, clip all the bolts, top out the route--it's not like I traversed over to the no-hands rest on surf's up. IMHO, Waimea is either (A) an eliminate at 10d, or (B) should be downgraded to 10c to reflect the most efficient sequence along the bolted line. I guess it was just easier to make up a squeeze job variation with a pejorative title than downgrading a moderate classic -- that could bruise some egos.

It's true that one could make an argument for Waimea being an eliminate. Then again, many routes are eliminates of a sort. The question is, does the line make sense and is it a good line? For many people, despite the eliminate nature of Waimea, the answer is yes.

Also, I think it's only 10c if you use the crack to completely avoid the crimps, requiring a run-out or some trad gear. It sounds like you were in fair 10d territory, from my point of view.

Eric Chabot wrote:I guess it was just easier to make up a squeeze job variation with a pejorative title than downgrading a moderate classic -- that could bruise some egos.

I think downgrading it would sandbag the route for most people who climb up the crimps, even if they rest in the crack. In general I think we climbers are too quick to downgrade, and far more reluctant to up-grade or protest a down-grade, for fear of being told we are motivated by ego. I'd rather have a rational discussion of grades, with each climber recognizing that grade and difficulty are not the same thing.

I don't think it is a squeeze job.. it is a pretty different alternate if you go the weenie way with gear. (if you don't use gear you will get damn close to the ground if you fall, if not deck)

Does not sound like you used the crack to avoid the crux... I agree If you have the hold and its within reach... it seems reasonable to use it, especially if you are particularly tall. Like Jake said. The weeney way is to climb the crack avoiding the crimp system. (Not that i consider someone leading overhanging 10.c on gear a weeney)

I agree with the last two posts, Eric. It sounds like you did not bypass the crux on the climb and you clipped all the bolts. In my book, you did Waimea. I have seen the trad version being led, and it climbs differently from the sport version. One could argue the sport version straight up is .10c/d but I think that matters less than moving on and testing yourself on climbs such as Peer Pressure, Centerpiece, Idiot's Deluxe, etc.

did you have fun? that is all that really matters...

who the fuk cares if it's an eliminate or not. Just keep climbing goddamn rocks.

More importantly - did you enjoy the climb?

You have to consciously do it the 10c way to do it the 10c way. It's not a squeeze job either...you gotta go way out there to get to the crack. as it stands the route trends right at a point before the crux. You did the route, relax.

what if ice-climbing were like this...

Ha!

Using the crack probably made it a 5.8...sorry to break the news to you :(

Wait until you get to the finishing moves on Social Outcast....

Eric Engberg wrote:Wait until you get to the finishing moves on Social Outcast....

hehehehe

If you climb All the Way-a and top-out, you can legitimately claim an ascent of any route at Waimea. You just went a little off-route! Jaws II here I come!

whoa, I had no idea this thread would grow so quickly. I think I figured out what the correct answer is: it doesn't matter. I'll dial back the spray in the future...

and the climb was fucking sick~!!! never have I pulled on friendlier crimps or more enjoyed finding hidden buckets than on this beautiful, dope-ass line.

Generally you know when you're off route on a sport climb. If you're looking a the pendulum of doom in the advent of a fall, then you're usually off route. If not keep climbing on the path of least resistance.

Waimea is a sick route!