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Main Cliff Left--Venus Wall
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Cave Route, The 
Selsun Blue 
Venus Flakes* 

Venus Flakes* 

YDS: 5.10a French: 6a Ewbanks: 18 UIAA: VI+ British: E1 5a WI4+ M5- PG13

   
Type:  Trad, Mixed, Ice, 1 pitch, 60'
Consensus:  YDS: 5.10a French: 6a Ewbanks: 18 UIAA: VI+ British: E1 5a WI4+ M5- [details]
FA: ?
New Route: Yes
Season: Winter
Page Views: 657
Submitted By: alpineclimb on Jan 13, 2009
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Venus Flakes, dry tooling. Rumney, NH. March 2011.

Description 

I couldn't find a name, description or FA for this climb so until otherwise notified it will be left up as such.

Start left of the lower vertical shaft of ice where Selsun Blue meets the cliff face. There is a prominent flake with fixed bolts. Dry tool up the flake using the bolted pro and into an ice cave. Good rest, then transfer back out right to the second vertical shaft and finish out.

Rock climb rated 5.10a and the vertical collum is sustained 90 degrees. I felt WI4+/5- was appropriate for the ice and M5 for the rock section.


Location 

Left of Selsun Blue, right of "Venus of the Halfshell" on Main Cliff Left/Venus Wall


Protection 

Bolted lower half to ice screws on the vertical pillar.



Comments on Venus Flakes* Add Comment
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Comments displayed oldest to newestSkip Ahead to the Most Recent Dated Feb 13, 2013
By lee hansche
Administrator
From: goffstown, nh
Jan 14, 2009

If anyone else does this route please take care as the rock at rumney is soft and you could damage the existing rock route Venus Envy...

By Lanky
From: Portland, ME
Jan 14, 2009

Seems like the local community should weigh in on this type of route, no? Does the local ethic frown on drytooling climbable rock?

By matthewWallace
From: plymouth, nh
Jan 14, 2009

My opinion on this is if it is a bad route (i.e. got the bag of shit rating) then feel free to dry tool on it but Venus Envy is far from a bad route, I know I would be saddened if a hold was broken because someone was dry tooling on it. In a place so dedicated to sport climbing I think it would be a tragedy to lose one of the good 5.10s in Rumney to dry tooling... but that is just my opinion. If I offend I apologize...

By lee hansche
Administrator
From: goffstown, nh
Jan 14, 2009

It is definitely frowned upon by most rumney locals to dry tool existing rock routes but i tend to try to avoid having any part in ethics wars so i only ask that you are careful to leave things as you found them... if i see no damage i have no problem...

By alpineclimb
From: Stratham, NH
Feb 2, 2009

I do believe that the route in question which I posted on here (and I know that it has been dry tooled multiple times over) relies on multiple holds for dry tooling that are jugs on the normal summer routes. Nothing should be in question in the form of damaging the climb from tools. I'm a Rumney local and I don't have a problem seeing people climb it.

By Jay Knower
Administrator
From: Plymouth, NH
Feb 2, 2009

What about the crampons? Every spring I notice new scratches on the rock from front points.

I don't really care that much about Venus Envy (average route, at best), but I'd certainly be bummed if people got on Neptune, Shame on a Chippa, or Venus with crampons and tools.

By alpineclimb
From: Stratham, NH
Feb 2, 2009

Not to be the Devil's Advocate but I don't think people would dry tool Venus on a Half-Shell (5.12c sport.) It would be like M9+ and way out of the league of most every weekend warrior that comes up 93 to Rumney on the weekends. If we're going to get into a conversation about ethics maybe we should discuss the people that urinate all over the place and not off the trail and away from the climbs; or the people that toss cigarette butts everywhere. I'm pretty tired of the non-local people that come up here and trash our crags. Go climb in Lawrence.

In all honesty I climb Rumney on an every other day basis during the rock months and I don't see that many crampon scratches. As much as I hate people, for the most part they are respectful of the climbs that are straight up rock routes.

"Venus Flakes," on that note, is really a true mixed route that starts on rock and finishes on ice without much aesthetic or structural damage to the rock IMHO.


By matthewWallace
From: plymouth, nh
Feb 2, 2009

alpine climb i dont think anyone was trying to insult you but even though the dry tooling isnt on the entire rock route it is still a route people who are trying to break into 5.10 seek. it would not destroy a rumney classic but it could destroy a good climb if the rock is solid i would sy climb on it but because of the nature of shist rock it could do damage. it ultimatly is your decision, but at the same time think about the potential outcomes... thats all we are asking, sorry if I offened you at all this is just my opinion...

By ajcormier
Feb 3, 2009

No offense taken at all. I'm simply playing the neutral position. I see everyone's point of view here. I also think it gets down to a level of outdoor ethics. What is appropriate to some one may not be to another. ie: bolting, fixed anchors, cementing tags with the names and grade at the bottom of each route (R.R.G.,) have a latter for route access (Waimea,) using chalk (not allowed in some European ranges.) Purism is purism I guess.

I love mixed climbing. Do I use discretion when and where I do it? Yes. I guess how much of a purist you are designates whether or not you'd dry tool at Rumney. To each their own but hopefully not at another climbers expense.

By matthewWallace
From: plymouth, nh
Feb 3, 2009

That's the best we can all do is use our best judgement not to damage what someone else views as fun and have respect for others, I feel that respect is what climbing ethics is all about, I don't want to play the ethics game about chalk and the ladder I just feel respect is the way to go, and I respect peoples wishes to dry tool, I just hope everyone can respect peoples wishes and be as respectful as possible.

also Ajcormier - is this Anthony? and did you used to be alpineclimb?

By alpineclimb
From: Stratham, NH
Feb 3, 2009

Ya, it's me. I forgot I had a second account on here and logged in at school where my passwords and user names aren't saved.

And yes, I completely agree with the respect thing. No one wants to get into a pissing match. Come to Vertical Dreams on Friday with us!

By matthewWallace
From: plymouth, nh
Feb 3, 2009

i would love to go but I already got plans but let me know some other time

By lee hansche
Administrator
From: goffstown, nh
Feb 3, 2009

oh so thats who you are... thanks for mistakenly giving away your identity... :)

the only thing i didnt like about the posting of that route was that it could give bone heads with no discretion the idea that drytooling was fair game all over rumney which would be a shame... after seeing this discussion under the route i guess there wont be any confusion...

see you at the dreams on friday...

By M Sprague
Administrator
From: New England
Feb 3, 2009

Do you really think Venus on a Halfshell would be M9+?...

By alpineclimb
From: Stratham, NH
Feb 4, 2009

"M9: Either continuously vertical or slightly overhanging with marginal or technical holds, or a juggy roof of 2 to 3 body lengths." - Wikipedia

"M8 Feels like 5.12 climbing or 8 to 10 meters of slightly overhanging and technical drytooling
M9 Feels like 5.12+ climbing or 10 to 15 meters of slightly overhanging and technical drytooling
M10 Feels like 5.13 climbing or overhanging, technical, and strenuous drytooling" - Summitpost.org

Seeing as how Venus is dead vertical and slightly overhanging with small holds and no rests, I'd say M9ish

By M Sprague
Administrator
From: New England
Feb 15, 2012

I think it is pretty gauche for people to be drytooling on these fairly long established bolted sport routes. It is schist after all, which is pretty soft. Stay on the ice or go find some pile to scratch your way up please. I personally think this should be removed as a mixed route or left only with a big warning to people not to climb it if it means drytooling where the rock climbs go.

By chinos
Feb 16, 2012

I have to agree with Mark on this. I am all for dry tooling, but not on a rock route that was established years ago. Go take a hike and find pile in the woods, plenty in NH!
There is nothing worse than getting on a rock route and seeing it's beauty all scratched to shit by cramps, just another opinion!

By john strand
From: southern colo
Feb 18, 2012

Mordor wall would be a good dry tool challenge.... hard rock as well

By bradley white
From: Plymouth
Jan 12, 2013

The left wall of ice can be continuous ice. Everyone has a right way to do this wall. The rock doesn't care who breaks off a hold. Both preferential climbers break flakes off by their hands and feet or tools and crampons.
Rock climbers get less grief.
This climb has made its connection. It is more important to me what stays with the collection of dry point routes at Rattlesnake. Maybe this one will stay in the collection. Its already off too a rocky start.

By Ryan Barber
From: Rumney, NH
Jan 15, 2013

There is plenty of great mixed climbing at Rumney that does not infringe on established and or popular rock routes. I agree that it is not generally acceptable to climb well established dry bolted routes with your tools, but (living virtually at the base of the mountain) I sojourn the crags frequently in a variety of conditions and I think Rumney has an incredible potential for mixed routes of a very high quality. I also agree with Matt that there is a lot of summer time "choss" which might stand as an already "established" bolted rock route, but which would be much better suited for winter climbing. Did Jim bolt "Dead Sea Equestrian" as a rock route with the purpose "Barbados" more safely led in winter (See Rumney guidebook pg. 39)? There are other bolted rock routes of similar stature (wet and mossy) which would make for challenging and exciting mixed routes, but which won't see traffic for fear of ethical dilemmas. Then there are other routes which sport icy dangles at the top of them which can not be reached but for use of try tool technique. Some of them are popular rock climbs, but some may not be. And then there are the obscure bolted routes which are NEVER climbed and have been given bombs from all directions. They may well be entirely different monsters in the winter environment and no one will ever care if they get scratched (afterall, the best alpine lines in NH are chossy horror shows in the summer). Perhaps if certain climbs were designated as "mixed", that would satisfy the desire for people to scratch around Rumney, while taking away the temptation to degrade the classics. Mixed climbing (after all) is becoming very popular and mainstream, and there being no way of regulating its activity at Rumney (besides asking people politely not to), it might do well to designate a few of these lines to the mixed scene. As a local within walking distance of the crags, I would be interested in seeing some development within the mixed arena for Rumney in a way which does not disrupt or degrade the sport climbing experience.

On another note, Cannon Cliff got some GREAT coverage in the new Rock and Ice with an article featuring the Black Dike and other NE alpine pleasantries.

By Ryan Barber
From: Rumney, NH
Feb 13, 2013

I noticed that there is a Chris Hassig ice climb left of Selsun Blue called Psoriasis. Could Venus Flakes be a partially formed version of this climb? According to the guidebook, it is a seperate icicle left of Selsun Blue which only formed once.