Vandalism at Statebrook

Somebody is vandalizing Statebrook. They are using a screwdriver or wrench to undo the clamp on the top anchors and removing the biners. It is hard for me to believe that somebody can be this inconsiderate. Are they going to all this trouble just to steal biners, do they think the top anchors are unsafe (they are totally safe) or do they have some crazy belief that clip in top anchors should not be used on Adirondack cliffs? Or is there some other reason? Whatever it is, please stop it!! The developers spent too much time and money on this cliff to appreciate some climber(s) screwing it up! If you know who is doing this please turn them in; shielding vandals is not good either.

Gary C Thomann wrote:Somebody is vandalizing Statebrook. They are using a screwdriver or wrench to undo the clamp on the top anchors and removing the biners. It is hard for me to believe that somebody can be this inconsiderate. Are they going to all this trouble just to steal biners, do they think the top anchors are unsafe (they are totally safe) or do they have some crazy belief that clip in top anchors should not be used on Adirondack cliffs? Or is there some other reason? Whatever it is, please stop it!! The developers spent too much time and money on this cliff to appreciate some climber(s) screwing it up! If you know who is doing this please turn them in; shielding vandals is not good either.

Gary, we (Keith and I) were in there Saturday top roping the routes immediately in front of the access trail as you reach the cliff (the 5.8/11/8/9). Around noon a group from Rochester arrived and appeared familiar with the cliff (one mentioned working on a project) and were climbing routes to the right (near the 5.7 chimney, etc). We left shortly after their arrival, driven off by the cold. If you know who they are maybe check with them? As of our use of that section of cliff Saturday, the anchors appeared unmolested. Since I was only belaying I'll need to check with my partner if there were biners on those anchors. Can you tell me if there should have been?

Hope here is to at least narrow down the window of time they became missing.

Loved that cliff fwiw, will be back on a warmer day.

Gary, per my climbing partner (not a member here so I post this on his behalf):

"The anchors I observed were either cold shut type with integrated wire gate or had a oval biner attached with a small hose clamp. All intact."

These were the three anchors atop Hollies High Step, Bowline..., and Englishman/englishman direct.

Kevin, thanks for the info. So glad folks are climbing there! The area you were climbing at is still in tact. The area you mentioned the other group was on (The Priest, Butter, Sulley's Belay, Uncle Hal) is the area that unfortunately have been vandalized. I did find a set of slings someone had left behind in what appeared to be an attempt to top rope the climbs now that the biners have been nicked! What a disappointment.

Man that Def sucks I was up there a few weekends ago with a rather large group but everything seemed intact as well. I really enjoyed that area too. I'd be willing to donate a few biners next time I'm there for the cause. Wish people would just leave stuff alone !

I was there 2X early this year. GREAT spot!

Maybe their protesting overbolted convienence crags -KEEP THE DAX WILD! they got this things called TREES if you top out istead of clip clip lower BS.

NE Steve, we put a lot of work to make SBN safe for all users. If you feel it is over bolted then please don't climb there. You are more then welcome to go climb all the R and X routes someplace else. Your statement has a hint that maybe you removed is gear.

Sorry never been to statebrook but if by safe for everyone you meen bolts right next to cracks like @ lostT then I'll def pass

only bolted routes arent R or X -yeah right!!!!!

NESteve wrote:Maybe their protesting overbolted convienence crags -KEEP THE DAX WILD! they got this things called TREES if you top out istead of clip clip lower BS.

NESteve wrote:Sorry never been to statebrook but if by safe for everyone you meen bolts right next to cracks like @ lostT then I'll def pass

NESteve wrote:only bolted routes arent R or X -yeah right!!!!!

Can someone help me decipher this?

No one is forcing you to use the anchors or to climb there. I would just prefer that no one would STEAL things from a place especially when it is something that makes life easier and safer for all. And for the tree thing, there are plenty of trees that take a beating and constant walking at the tops of routes can cause issue as well. I'm all for the work done in the southern mtns.

Scott Bissi wrote:No one is forcing you to use the anchors or to climb there I would just prefer ot if no one would STEAL things from a place especially when it is something that a makes life easier and safer for all. And for the tree thing there are plenty of trees that take a beating and constant walking at the tops of routs can cause issue as well. I'm all for the work done in the southern mtns.

+1, just because there's trees doesn't mean it's a good idea to use them. If anything I applaud the effort and time spent trying to reduce cliff top erosion/issues.

Guess I wasnt to clear -feeling the ipa this morning. Point is you don't need bolts to make roots safe when you can place gear. DRs post makes it sound like he thinks any cliff with no bolts is R/X? BS!! Not geeting how chainsawing the base pf the cliff is okay but then you have to place bolts to protect the trees on top. I thought the DAX wasn't an outdoor gym I think you guys just like placing bolts and wrecking thre place and use saving trees (only @ the top!!!!!!) to do what you want. I wont be going to statebrook because you guys will probably ty to get me to pay $10 and take a belay test just like at the GYM!!!

NE, Before any bolts are placed on a climb it was climbed on TR by 3or4 people placing gear. Then it's the group that decides if a bolt is to be place or not. Some of the best route we put up are all trad and are G. I have been to same areas in the Dak's that have some great looking routes that have been put up that are R or X. I would love to try some, but I do this for fun not some ego trip. If one or two bolts were put in a lot more people would be doing this route.

NESteve wrote:Guess I wasnt to clear -feeling the ipa this morning. Point is you don't need bolts to make roots safe when you can place gear. DRs post makes it sound like he thinks any cliff with no bolts is R/X? BS!! Not geeting how chainsawing the base pf the cliff is okay but then you have to place bolts to protect the trees on top. I thought the DAX wasn't an outdoor gym I think you guys just like placing bolts and wrecking thre place and use saving trees (only @ the top!!!!!!) to do what you want. I wont be going to statebrook because you guys will probably ty to get me to pay $10 and take a belay test just like at the GYM!!!

This is a very complicated topic and has been discussed a couple thousand times before on numerous climbing forums. Nothing you post is new/unique to the discussion. If you're suggesting the 'area had it coming' by making the points you've made in this thread, then you are incorrect. It's petty theft/vandalism of fixed gear. You can wail on about how evil they are, no one is listening. The manner in which Statebrook is/was developed is very very close to the general consensus in climbing today. It's a "new" area, so they have the option of securing a R/X section. "Old" areas only have those sections because it's not etiquette to retro-bolt routes without permission from the first ascensionist. Otherwise there's a hundred routes in Tuolumne needing a couple hundred bolts. lol

NESteve wrote:Guess I wasnt to clear -feeling the ipa this morning. Point is you don't need bolts to make roots safe when you can place gear. DRs post makes it sound like he thinks any cliff with no bolts is R/X? BS!! Not geeting how chainsawing the base pf the cliff is okay but then you have to place bolts to protect the trees on top. I thought the DAX wasn't an outdoor gym I think you guys just like placing bolts and wrecking thre place and use saving trees (only @ the top!!!!!!) to do what you want. I wont be going to statebrook because you guys will probably ty to get me to pay $10 and take a belay test just like at the GYM!!!

Dacks is short for Adirondacks. Dax is a first name.

What about the bolts at Tongue Mountain, Crane or Spanky's?

Do you have a poster of Don and Ken on your wall?

Thanks for the spelling lesson. I knew I was a fool for posting anything on a forum. It just sad that after 2.5 years of hard work and hundreds of dollars spent on this crag that people will always find fault with what we have done.
Happy Climbing to all

But remember Don there are a lot of us that do appreciate it :)

Don , try to take it , it is appalling that the constant is to swipe not stalk!
Your accomplishments stewardship and vision are un-known .

this snarky cutting response is a form of welcome , or, I always choose to see it that way.
I think it may be more tolerable, even fun when I look at it that way.

look at the other constant we climbers live by
and next time one of the whipper-snappers
Pipes up with disrespect,
Just throw out the easy, true & double edged~

YAGTD,

if the n00b warrants any respect
Or Not

Type it out

Your Are Going To Die!

Oh Bill, try to hit on the persons history or ask your self if this is the guy you want to
Get off on the wrong foot with.
There is an old saying about only getting one chance to make a first impression or is that . . . .
Well every time you climb a route for the first time it is a first ascent to you.
Every time you post critically, Blindly thumping your chest.
It sours the less web enamored, who are often very deep rooted experienced climbers. Some times the hardest hard core of the climbers .

Bill Kirby wrote: Dacks is short for Adirondacks. Dax is a first name. What about the bolts at Tongue Mountain, Crane or Spanky's? Do you have a poster of Don and Ken on your wall?

Bill! I'm yelling at you again! ... .?
We are all just trying to share - to be heard on what we know and love, climbing related stuff.
You know, we all want positive responses. And a new post from a contemplative source should not be the target of your overboard criticism, I see it was very mild, not any sort of an attack,
Just voicing a pet peeve about that spelling/ contraction Vs call symbol.
Still a smile face would have gone a long way.
Do you want to stop by Connecticut this weekend ?
There is a lot of activity that is only hinted at here
and it is the same In other smaller climbing zones around the Gunks.
PM me if your looking for an uncrowned route in the Gunks this weekend.
Cheers with jeers
YAGTD,. ,, .. ,, B^D

That sucks that someone is vandalizing them. The Arrieta Crew has done a great job in terms of anchors. The fact that they aren't at the actual cliff tops tends to fend off purely convenience bolting IMO. If you have to climb a route or rap into the bolts, it lessens the gang top roping that polishes the rock to some degree.

All that said, I wonder who is going to maintain these long term. It seems like many areas are popular for a few years and then die out, the anchors get manky and unsafe. New shiny bolted routes are nice, not so much in a decade or two.

is attaching the biners with pipe clamp entirely safe? I thought biners should be allowed to free float? I didn't think this was especially safe at Shanty Cliff (Climbers Yodel comes to mind) as I lowered off. I wondered if chains wouldn't have been safer. Any reason the biners are used over chains or cold shuts?