CoalPit Buttress

Tony:

Why are you removing old bolts? You're erasing history.

BSmoot,
I really know that TC has some baggage and what not, especially here on this site. But,I think your question is just more fuel for that fire...it seems challenging, to me anyway. Maybe a more effective question would be, 'TC, yeah, now that I think about it...I do know a little about the fixed hardware up there eventhough its not in any of the books...let's get together and see whats up before you pull anything else...I care about that history!"

or something to that affect.

I'm not trying to be a smart ass or a soul supporter for TC, I just believe there is a better solution...TC is gonna be out there doing his thing...in fact, he'll probably be out there more than anyone else...and last time I was up there in that area with him, we did pull some old hardware...let me tell you...the only logical explanation we could come up with as to why it was located where it was...is because back in the hey day when you all were scurrying all over the wasatch looking for hard lines...some misc. hardware was fixed to allow better exploration access (e.g. we found an old, unsafe bolt on top of a ledge wehre snakepit goes near. the only thing we could think of was it was used to check out the blank slab below in hopes of finding that 'hardass' climb that it seems y'all were searching for 20 years ago...)

again, i do not intend to be a smartass or a dick (with the elder joke)...i've told you before, i respect history too, and the work that you do! while not totally on the same page as TC, i think he is generally within the rules and guidelines on his decisions--at least in this present day and age! ha! that's a jab at you TC...we'll talk about it...out on the rock!

In the summer of 05' Luke D. and I climbed the majority of the routes I've posted on this site.

The only fixed gear we ran across was:

-webbing around the pine tree at the top of P3 of the Precious Lost.

-webbing around a dead stump/twig in between Doggystyle and Sumatra at the top of the routes.

-while rapping from Organization's top anchor I noticed webbing around that big pine tree to the east.

-blue webbing around a dead stump to the left of the 1st pitch of Organization, and a bolt above that with a bail biner

The last two mentioned piles of tat and bail biner are on Nanooks from the North.

While I have no doubt that some of the pitches were climbed over there before the 2000's. I do not think the majority of the reported were.

Glen:

My question and comment are IMO very valid, If you want to interpret my post as "challenging" you're free to do so. When someone pulls out old bolts like that your robbing other climbers of important historical information.

BSmoot: you are absolutely correct! i hope we are o.k. disagreeing about what you intended to communicate and what I alone have interpreted from your post--i really do not mean to insult or disregard your input. it's weird, since you may consider this as a fuss, but i agree with you...no one should remove any 'important climber or non-climber history anchors' (pun intended) from our backyard!

what was/is the important climber history behind the bolt that was located above what i know as the 2-bolt slab of snakepit? (let's go out and i will show you exactly what/where)

i repeat...errr...we could not come up with any 'logical' reasons as to the location or purpose of this bolt--other than as an access bolt to look at the blank slab below...when that blank slab only revealed boring 5.8 to 5.9 (maybe harder if you only go straight up), whoever placed it moved on since it was not the wasatch gem they were hoping for...

since Tony, or Luke, or Tyler, or me, or anyone else putting new energy into that area cannot find any concrete recorded important history (about FA's or early exploration, etc.) besides what is available from this community, the past and present guidebooks, etc. then...

we now have a very interesting climbing area that offers beginners and intermediates a fun week's worth of climbing...

when i moved here 7 years ago...there really was only Pentapitch/surroundings and some non-descript weed wackers that seemed more nostalgic then anything else (i.e. not worth it)...sure, i've come to learn that it really ALL has been climbed before...and i mean all of it...

how often did/do you climb over there (between the east shoulder of coalpit--aka the tree route and vicinity--all the way west to endless torment and pentatpitch?)

since you been here a real long time, i expect the answer to this rhetoric to be "i've climbed over there hundreds of times..." i'd like to assume you know what i really mean:

Yes, let's not remove important historical evidence of our climbing roots.
However, there seems to be a new "movement" or "consciousness" if you will...and some of our predecessor's mistakes/experiments are gonna need to take a back seat...cause there are alot more minds contributing to this new movement then there were back when these "lone" bolts and anchors were installed...

If Tony or anyone else were to remove hardware from an actual worthy route...then...let's retaliate...

Tony said (and I totally agree),

"I don't see any point in leaving emergency rappel anchors in place either."

cough, cough, snake pit... cough cough.

Not trying to add fuel to the fire either. I'm just saying that Tony told me he put in a bolted belay to bail in the rain off that route.

My point is not to flame you. We've all had to bail at one time or another and sometimes exploratory rappell anchors should be deleted - even if its a bolt next to a crack.

very true.

love how tc deleted his posts above. never undersood that.