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using accessory cord for slings...
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Aug 10, 2012
I've been meaning to start carrying more accessory cord while climbing multi-pitch for emergency or self-rescue situations. I've been putting it off because I just really hate carrying more weight on me. I got an idea to get rid of a couple of my double length runners, replacing them with accessory cord instead. Maybe replacing a shoulder length and a elbow length as well. It seems as if I can cancel out some of the weight by doing this. They would be more versatile than the runners as I can untie them, use them for prussiks, bail/back up rappels, etc. I guess a downside is they may not always be directly on me if I'm using them as slings/draws. Thoughts? recommendations on diameter/lengths? I'm gonna die? generationfourth
From Irvine, CA
Joined Mar 2, 2008
21 points
Aug 10, 2012
Rock Climbing Photo: High Exposure
generationfourth wrote:
I've been meaning to start carrying more accessory cord while climbing multi-pitch for emergency or self-rescue situations.


I tie my chalk bag on with a loop of 6mm cord and a sheet bend. I sometimes carry one or two "draws" made of 6mm loops that are doubled.

Cordage makes better friction knots, IMO. But, I've used nylon slings with a French Prusik or Klemheist.
wivanoff
Joined Mar 3, 2012
401 points
Aug 10, 2012
wivanoff wrote:
I tie my chalk bag on with a loop of 6mm cord and a sheet bend. I sometimes carry one or two "draws" made of 6mm loops that are doubled. Cordage makes better friction knots, IMO. But, I've used nylon slings with a French Prusik or Klemheist.


ah the chalk bag! great idea. and good point I need to learn friction knots that can be used with nylon slings.
generationfourth
From Irvine, CA
Joined Mar 2, 2008
21 points
Aug 10, 2012
Well, tied 6mm cord loops aren't going to be as strong as webbing slings. (~8 kn * 2 strands - knot efficiency, so like 12-13 kN at best). Of course you could go to 7mm or greater too.

Webbing tied with a water knot is another option.

This PDF as always is useful for comparing different cords and webbing for different applications:
user.xmission.com/~tmoyer/test...
Brad W
From San Diego
Joined Apr 16, 2009
87 points
Aug 10, 2012
Before you swap out anything, take a self rescue course first. You'll be surprised by the amount of gear you need and don't need. divnamite
From New York, NY
Joined Aug 1, 2007
219 points
Aug 10, 2012
Rock Climbing Photo: Rewritten
generationfourth wrote:
I've been meaning to start carrying more accessory cord while climbing multi-pitch for emergency or self-rescue situations. I've been putting it off because I just really hate carrying more weight on me.



I don't think you really need it for rescue, but I always carry one double length sling tied from 7mm accessory cord in case I need to bail. I also have my chalk bag tied with the same type of accessory cord as someone else suggested. I used to just carry double length dyneema slings because they were lighter, but at $15 a pop, it sucks leaving them behind versus a few dollars worth of cord (not to mention you have to cut and retie them to make some situations work while the cord is more versatile). I've carried additional webbing in the past, but it seems silly to carry webbing plus dyneema slings, when you can carry just accessory cord slings/chalk bag belt and save in total weight...
Julius Beres
From Boulder, CO
Joined Jun 27, 2008
211 points
Aug 10, 2012
divnamite wrote:
Before you swap out anything, take a self rescue course first. You'll be surprised by the amount of gear you need and don't need.


Yeah I've been going over the climbing self rescue book (with the red cover). I seem to be already carrying everything I need with the exception of an extra prussik, and an extra ~10 feet of cord...

(and yes I know that reading a book doesn't equal taking a class)
generationfourth
From Irvine, CA
Joined Mar 2, 2008
21 points
Aug 12, 2012
I have a Bail Belt on my chalk bag, made of flat webbing like all the chalk bag leashes (prana, arcteryx, etc.). Its got a quick release snap buckle but can be used as an eye to eye "rabbit" runner to bail off a climb. It's somewhere in the middle of super comfy and super practical. Russ Facente
Joined Nov 29, 2010
1 points
Aug 19, 2012
Rock Climbing Photo: Epic belay shot
Its nice When you cut part of an anchor cord to use the leftovers for this or use it as a quad if it's long enough. Anyway, consider using different thickness cord for different applications. 5mm for rescue, prussik cord, 6mm for anchors, 7 if ya want it to be really beefy. Just a thought... But honestly as long as you've got 1 prussik you don't need a ton of small pieces of cord

What I've been carrying for alpine style multi pitches:
1 prussik (keep it on my leg loop on a locker)
1 21 ft 5mm cord
AT LEAST 3 lockers reserved for rescue, 4 if a bail is possible
A few rap rings if it's long.
Medic741
From Red Hook, New York
Joined Apr 1, 2012
289 points
Aug 19, 2012
Rock Climbing Photo: ...
Julius Beres wrote:
I don't think you really need it for rescue, but I always carry one double length sling tied from 7mm accessory cord in case I need to bail. I also have my chalk bag tied with the same type of accessory cord as someone else suggested. I used to just carry double length dyneema slings because they were lighter, but at $15 a pop, it sucks leaving them behind versus a few dollars worth of cord (not to mention you have to cut and retie them to make some situations work while the cord is more versatile). I've carried additional webbing in the past, but it seems silly to carry webbing plus dyneema slings, when you can carry just accessory cord slings/chalk bag belt and save in total weight...




dude, !!!!!!!!please!!!!!!! do not try tying dyneema slings.....im surprised no one has said anything to you yet, or they just didnt catch it. dyneema cord, yes, but knots will slip in dyneema webbing.

edit: now i just found a post a half page down about knots in dyneema, maybe you should have a look at it.....i thought this was common knowledge when companies first started using dyneema a long time ago.

also.....

dmmclimbing.com/news/2012/03/k...
EFS
Joined Jul 25, 2012
47 points
Aug 20, 2012
Rock Climbing Photo: Epic belay shot
Read the tags that come with the gear you buy if you're new... It will answer questions like that. Good catch! Medic741
From Red Hook, New York
Joined Apr 1, 2012
289 points
6 days ago
Rock Climbing Photo: Another three-point anchor with clove hitches.
I've heard it suggested that accessory cord absorbs more energy than webbing. Eric Moss
Joined Apr 15, 2016
83 points
6 days ago
Rock Climbing Photo: Somewhere on Prusik Peak.
Do you really need more than one loop of cord in addition to your cordalette? You can do quite a bit with those two items. Nick Sweeney
From Spokane, WA
Joined Jun 8, 2013
494 points
6 days ago
Rock Climbing Photo: Another three-point anchor with clove hitches.
Nick Sweeney wrote:
Do you really need more than one loop of cord in addition to your cordalette? You can do quite a bit with those two items.


No, but if replacing my web slings with cord will make me even marginally safer, I'll do it.
Eric Moss
Joined Apr 15, 2016
83 points
6 days ago
Rock Climbing Photo: Somewhere on Prusik Peak.
Eric Moss wrote:
No, but if replacing my web slings with cord will make me even marginally safer, I'll do it.


I agree with you, but how would replacing slings with cord increase safety? If anything, I would see the reduction in strength as a decrease in safety. What would you do with the extra loops of cord? Perhaps the best answer here is to get some more training (or do some more research) so that you can perform self-rescue procedures with whatever you have on hand.

I always carry:
1 21 foot length of 7mm cord
one prusik loop of 6mm cord
one double length dyneema sling
one double length nylon sling
four locking carabiners
ATC guide or Reverso with an additional locking carabiner

I'm confident that I can build whatever system I need with the above in addition to whatever I have left of the rack on my harness. I have built a 7 to 1 hauling system with this before. Sometimes I will bring a Ropeman 2 as part of my rescue kit, which is smoother than a prusik.
Nick Sweeney
From Spokane, WA
Joined Jun 8, 2013
494 points
6 days ago
I've thought about doing rabbit runner style alpine draws by putting an eyesplice in both ends of 6mm cord. But this would not be 6mm accessory cord, if you look to rope manufacturers you can find 6mm cord rated as high as 27kN (this might have been the cord that only comes by the spool as a replacement for small crane cables).

But I'm not sure that I would trust that I tied the eyesplice correctly for holding 22kN or more. But if you do want to use cord in place of webbing for slings, consider looking to cord made for non-climbing purposes because you can find stronger cord for the same diameter. I would recommend double braid (any cord or rope I have seen for climbing is double braid as well).
Brady3
Joined Apr 18, 2014
16 points
6 days ago
Eric Moss wrote:
I've heard it suggested that accessory cord absorbs more energy than webbing.


Energy absorption is the rope's job.
Gunkiemike
Joined Jul 29, 2009
2,447 points
6 days ago
Rock Climbing Photo: Another three-point anchor with clove hitches.
Nick Sweeney wrote:
I agree with you, but how would replacing slings with cord increase safety? If anything, I would see the reduction in strength as a decrease in safety. What would you do with the extra loops of cord? Perhaps the best answer here is to get some more training (or do some more research) so that you can perform self-rescue procedures with whatever you have on hand. I always carry: 1 21 foot length of 7mm cord one prusik loop of 6mm cord one double length dyneema sling one double length nylon sling four locking carabiners ATC guide or Reverso with an additional locking carabiner I'm confident that I can build whatever system I need with the above in addition to whatever I have left of the rack on my harness. I have built a 7 to 1 hauling system with this before. Sometimes I will bring a Ropeman 2 as part of my rescue kit, which is smoother than a prusik.


It doesn't have to be a reduction in strength, depending on the cord you use, but even if you used 7mm, that would be something like 16KN in loop form with knots, which is more than most natural anchors.

I'm less interested in the other uses of cord than I am in the energy absorption.

I wonder why we use slings rather than cord, aside from sewn slings being sexier.
Eric Moss
Joined Apr 15, 2016
83 points
6 days ago
Eric Moss wrote:
I wonder why we use slings rather than cord, aside from sewn slings being sexier.

I'm guessing sewn slings are cheaper to produce than spliced cord slings and knotted cord slings would be too much of a liability for the manufacturer/people wouldn't buy them because they could just tie their own. But most people don't want to make their own gear, let alone gear they are trusting their life with, so they buy the slings that are available. Also the knots would be more bulky than a nylon sling.
Brady3
Joined Apr 18, 2014
16 points
6 days ago
Rock Climbing Photo: Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
Dude (Eric), you need to get a job or a girlfriend or a dog or just go climb. Greg D
From Here
Joined Apr 5, 2006
988 points
6 days ago
Eric Moss wrote:
I wonder why we use slings rather than cord, aside from sewn slings being sexier.

Slings, originally called runners, because they were used as part of a "running belay" (extremely outdated term, which had nothing to do with running), were first made of cord - thin goldline specifically. Climbers flocked to webbing when it became available because of the reduced weight and bulk. Sewn slings were just the next product improvement, eliminating the bulk of the water knot.
(When we tied our own slings from 1" tubular webbing, everyone used the water knot, not the double fisherman's.)
Marc801
From Sandy, Utah
Joined Feb 25, 2014
58 points
6 days ago
Rock Climbing Photo: High Exposure
One of my really old British mountaineering books has some photos of climbers using slings made of laid rope that had been re-woven using a marlinespike. I think it was 1/4" or 5/16" diameter Goldline.

I tried that once. It was....interesting. Never used in anger - just was interested in knowing how to do it.

We started off using slings made of 1" webbing tied with a water knot or double fisherman's - everybody did at the time. At some point, I sewed some of my own slings - before they were commercially available.

I still try to carry one knotted double runner that can be used for rap tat.
wivanoff
Joined Mar 3, 2012
401 points
6 days ago
Eric Moss wrote:
I wonder why we use slings rather than cord, aside from sewn slings being sexier.


Because energy absorption is not a required characteristic for the sling to function. The rope does that job.

Because tied cord is more of a liability then a sewn and tested sling.

Because weight. Because bulk.
Brian L.
Joined Feb 19, 2016
76 points
6 days ago
Rock Climbing Photo: Another three-point anchor with clove hitches.
Brian L. wrote:
Because energy absorption is not a required characteristic for the sling to function. The rope does that job. Because tied cord is more of a liability then a sewn and tested sling. Because weight. Because bulk.


Those are all valid reasons, indeed.

I wonder how beneficial it might be to carry one cord sling for a marginal placement.
Eric Moss
Joined Apr 15, 2016
83 points
6 days ago
Eric Moss wrote:
I've heard it suggested that accessory cord absorbs more energy than webbing.


Depends on the cord and depends on the webbing, you can't make a blanket statement about this.

Even with smaller nylon accessory cord, which is on the "soft" side as far as "static" cords go, the energy absorption is pretty small. I don't see a situation where it is a significant advantage.

The rope is stretchy, use that.
Kyle Tarry
From Portland, OR
Joined Mar 5, 2015
77 points
6 days ago
Eric Moss wrote:
I wonder how beneficial it might be to carry one cord sling for a marginal placement.


Not beneficial.

The rope and sling basically form two springs in series, and because the rope is orders of magnitude softer than any sling or cord, the stretch of the sling is not a factor.

The stretch of the cord is, in theory, a factor when there isn't rope in the system, such as a fall directly onto the belay anchor. However, even in that case, the amount of stretch is really low.

By the way, this has been tested very thoroughly. For example: dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/slin...

(In my opinion, the DMM testing makes the difference appear to be much greater than it is in reality, because they drop a completely rigid mass onto the slings. Real climbing loads (like people) aren't rigid.)
Kyle Tarry
From Portland, OR
Joined Mar 5, 2015
77 points


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