Using 8mm hangers with 1/4" button heads

Hello MP,

Yes, I'm going to die. Now that we got that out of the way...

I know Fixe used to make a 5/16" hanger that they paired with 1/4" button heads, but I don't see this hanger as still being available. Has anyone out there used the Fixe 8mm hangers paired with 1/4" button heads? Any thoughts regarding this practice? Thanks

If you feel like chiming in to tell me why I shouldn't use 1/4" hardware, or to make sure that I won't be adding bolts to existing routes, or to tell me that if I have to ask a question like this that I have no business being near a drill- Thanks, but no thanks. This thread is about using 8mm hangers with 1/4" split shank button heads.

Cheers

Purely out of curiosity how are you planning on using these bolts? Is this for putting up new routes that will be climbed by others, or is this more for placing the odd aid bolt on obscure alpine routes?

Shelton, as you know I stalk your gear for sale post,

Your Gonna Die. . . 7:=p

But you will suffer Eternal damnation If you use that crap gear for any climbing that might get repeated & some one blows it and dies or worse.
( todays crop of climbers has a dangerous way of blindly excepting & expecting that all bolts are equal.)

The life span of a 1/4 inch button head is variable.

Ive climbed routes with them for pro for years(DecadeS). It is always scarier( knowin' what's up )
, I carry RPs ,etc. to back up , or augment the bolts, some times with .00 aid pro

I hope that the destination is High and dry and that you use button heads in conjunction with other pro.

Climb however you want to,

Are You also banging Iron?

I haven't used the 8mm hangers with button heads but have placed a few hundred 1/4" button heads using the 3/8" (10mm) hangers. just go to the hardware store and get some washers that fit the 1/4" button heads. It's not the most elegant solution but it works.

Shelton Hatfield wrote: If you feel like chiming in to tell me why I shouldn't use 1/4" hardware, or to make sure that I won't be adding bolts to existing routes, or to tell me that if I have to ask a question like this that I have no business being near a drill- Thanks, but no thanks.

Sorry man but you cant ask about a practice that's fairly universally accepted as unacceptable, respond with a "dont ask me what I am doing with the bolts" attitude and expect a straight answer. No one is going to lend advice if they think you might be creating a problem that someone else is going to have to fix in the future. Tell us more about your project and we might be willing to chime in.

20 kN wrote: Sorry man but you cant ask about a practice that's fairly universally accepted as unacceptable, respond with a "dont ask me what I am doing with the bolts" attitude and expect a straight answer. No one is going to lend advice if they think you might be creating a problem that someone else is going to have to fix in the future. Tell us more about your project and we might be willing to chime in.

Fair enough. I'm hoping to use the bolts as single point belay/haul anchors on soon to be popular soft desert sandstone bigwall FAs. I figure someone else will replace them before they get too sketchy. We'll have a BOSCH with us, so I could go 1/2", but 1/4" are lighter, cheaper, and you get more holes per battery. end troll

Okay, joking aside, I think it is reasonable for people to feel out my plans before they dispense advice. The only reason I am interested in 1/4" hardware is for ground up hand drilling on new routes. I will be the only one climbing above these little bolts. I will be pulling these bolts as soon as I can get the rope up. I have no interest in leaving "time bombs", and I have no interest in doing a job that someone else will have to come fix within my lifetime. Any 1/4" bolt I place will be promptly replaced with bomb-proof hardware, even if I don't think the route will be repeated.

I appreciate everyone's input, and I appreciate that the climbing community is passionate about having quality fixed hardware. I feel the same and will continue to place quality hardware that I can take pride in.

20 kN wrote: a practice that's fairly universally accepted as unacceptable

I didn't realize I've been doing something that is so universally unacceptable for so long...

I'm gonna follow my gut instincts and assume Mikey knows something or other about drilling on lead, ground up.

What you're probably after is hangers where you can tap the buttonhead through and have it stay without needing tape, washers, etc - that way the bolt doesn't fall out of the hanger so you can rack a bolt or two on your sling and not mess around with the bolt bag at a dicey stance.

The deal is: it depends. Even with true 5/16" hole hangers, the actual width of the widest part of the split of a 1/4" split-shaft varies depending on batch. With the only 8mm hangers I checked out - years ago - they were just slightly too big and the buttonhead could easily be placed into the hanger without tapping it in - so the bolt could also easily fall out of the hanger.

The 5/16" hole SMC hangers - stainless ones of course - are typically perfect, but even with those sometimes the 1/4" buttonhead will not stay in the hanger.

My favorite are 1/4" hole stainless SMC hangers which I would carefully widen with a small rattail file so that I could just get the buttonhead in (oval hole), but I'd widen it side-to-side so that there'd be no play vertically.

Of course, it's hard to find stainless SMC hangers, unless you're stubborn enough to spend endless time replacing old bolts and so you happen to have a lot of them handy! Like Mikey said, a washer with a 3/8" hanger works fine, and a bit of climbing tape will hold it great, just don't leave it in a bolt bag for a few years and expect the tape to still hold the bolt!

(on an vaguely related side note - if reusing stainless SMC hangers with a 3/8" hole - the hole is a bit too small for the sleeve of a 3/8" 5-piece but will fit a 3/8" stud/wedge bolt)

Shelton Hatfield wrote: Fair enough. I'm hoping to use the bolts as single point belay/haul anchors on soon to be popular soft desert sandstone bigwall FAs. I figure someone else will replace them before they get too sketchy. We'll have a BOSCH with us, so I could go 1/2", but 1/4" are lighter, cheaper, and you get more holes per battery.

Since that's the case, I would just get whatever standard 8mm or 10mm hanger and use a washer. Those 1/4" bolts are weak enough that you're never going to pull a washer over them and through the hanger on a fall. Some buttonheads have a wide enough head that when paired with an 8mm hanger, you might not even need a washer at all, especially since you're only using them temporarily. If you use a washer, find one that is made from thin stock so you wont draw the bolt from the hole as much.

Mikey Schaefer wrote: I didn't realize I've been doing something that is so universally unacceptable for so long...

Owned

I haven't used this set up yet, but the 8mm Fixe hanger will hold a 1/4" once tapped through. On a separate note, the Confasts (on the right) have a significantly thinner/flatter head, which makes me question them somewhat.

Fixe 8mm hanger. Powers on left, Confast on right.

People die from others placing substandard bolts.

This is what happens when people use substandard bolts:
ukclimbing.com/news/item.ph…
chockstone.org/forum/Forum.…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQt4AbQmJjE#t=98

Those smc 2 nd gen stainless are perfect for button heads.

Fwiw, I have taken wingers on my freshly placed 1/4's, and others have had them fall out of the hole.

Even the granite in Yosemite is quite different as you move around formations.

Never the same placement, even after placing 100's of them. Some we replaced, some we left.

I say slug a couple in at the belay and send up grandma...

Thanks everyone for keeping the good info coming in.

Greg, you nailed it. I liked the way the button heads I'd been playing with stayed in their hangers. But I'm certainly not above using some tape and washers.

I appreciate everyone sharing their experience with the 8mm hangers, and the other hangers too for that matter. I'm definitely keeping my eyes peeled for some non-sketch SMC hangers, but glad to hear about all the different stuff people are making work.

Also I think the peanut gallery will be happy to know that I did a new route yesterday and placed exactly zero bolts, ESPECIALLY zero 1/4"ers.