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By Ice4life
From SLC, UT
Jun 2, 2012
GYM
ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=20673751&...

Very sad accident...

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By FrankPS
From Atascadero, CA
Jun 2, 2012
Did you know the guy? If so, my condolences. Sad, indeed, but the article is vague. The gist of it is, "Unidentified person falls to his death." Not much to be gleaned or learned from this.

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By BurtMachlan
Jun 2, 2012
Sounds like a hiker fell of a cliff and died. Sad he died young but why does this need to be posted on here? Its not like car wrecks or other deaths that have no relation to climbing get posted....

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By Josh.Wood
From New York City
Jun 2, 2012
True, it was a tragedy. I also noticed that the article says he was free soloing. Doesn't really touch my heart.

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By Jake M
From San Diego, CA
Jun 2, 2012
Hollow Man BCC
”Utah County Sgt. Eldon Packer said the man, a 22-year-old from Nevada, was climbing without a rope with a group of friends when he fell.”

Not quite sure what you mean by, 'no relation to climbing' or 'it sounds like a hiker fell off a cliff.' Really sad for the family, and friends who witnessed it happen.

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By BurtMachlan
Jun 2, 2012
Jake M wrote:
”Utah County Sgt. Eldon Packer said the man, a 22-year-old from Nevada, was climbing without a rope with a group of friends when he fell.” Not quite sure what you mean by, 'no relation to climbing' or 'it sounds like a hiker fell off a cliff.' Really sad for the family, and friends who witnessed it happen.


Uhh because to me it sounds this guy and his buddies were out hiking and decided to scramble up some rocks. I guess he was "freesoling" but I doubt he had any idea thats what its called and doubt he was really a "climber" at all. The newspaper always cites "climbing without a rope" any time a hiker falls off a cliff... which is what this sounds like.

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By Tradoholic
Jun 2, 2012
Another example of the media demonizing climbing. This guy was was dicking around and got in over his head. It's this kind of thing that turns the general public against climbers and climbing access.

Sure, it's sad but I have much more sympathy for people who starve to death.

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By drmartindell
From Homer, Ak
Jun 2, 2012
BurtMachlan wrote:
Uhh because to me it sounds this guy and his buddies were out hiking and decided to scramble up some rocks. I guess he was "freesoling" but I doubt he had any idea thats what its called and doubt he was really a "climber" at all. The newspaper always cites "climbing without a rope" any time a hiker falls off a cliff... which is what this sounds like.


No, actually this sounds like someone was free soloing. Probably emulating Alex Honnold or whoever else is soloing this week on tv.

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By BurtMachlan
Jun 2, 2012
drmartindell wrote:
No, actually this sounds like someone was free soloing. Probably emulating Alex Honnold or whoever else is soloing this week on tv.


Yeah he was technically free soloing but ask him or any of his buddies what "free soloing" is and I bet they have no idea. Sounds like a college student who was out hiking and thought it woudl be a good idea to do some rock climbing and didn't think they needed a rope.

Or you can be a moron and believe some 60 minutes episode that aired months ago made him do this.... Riiiiight. Hope you arent an actual Doctor, although common sense is usually not a doctors strongest point....

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By russelljus
From Park City, UT
Jun 4, 2012
Jack, super tired after a long day in southern uta...
This doesn't make things any better...

ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=...

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By Greg D
From Here
Jun 5, 2012
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
The posts above are some of the most insensitive and ignorant I've seen. But, they will not get deleted. But, what I'm about to say is more likely to get deleted because of the honest and non pc format I choose.

Frankly, who gives a shit if this guy knows what "free solo" means. Who cares if he was hiking, scrambling, climbing or what ever definition you like to give it. He was on some rock, slipped and died. Offer your condolences or stfu.

Do you really think some journalist calling this guy a climber has any thing to do with access or this is an appropriate forum to mention that. That's just plain retarded. And have you done anything to improve access to anywhere ever? Climbers die every year in Eldorado Canyon. Yet, access is completely uninhibited except for an endangered bird area. Access gets threatened by climbers (those that know the term "free solo") that leave trash, damage plants, leave chalk, human waste, bolts and much more. But, I'm not familiar with an area getting shut down because of deaths. Strange, huh.

So, may I suggest you do us all a favor and return your stick clip and matching hydrophobic pants to REI and offer up some condolences to this guy's family and friends and don't turn this into your "access" or "he wasn't a climber" or "he was scrambling" or "media inaccuracy" bullshit.

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By Joe Huggins
From Grand Junction
Jun 5, 2012
mmmm....tree
Greg D wrote:
The posts above are some of the most insensitive and ignorant I've seen. But, they will not get deleted. But, what I'm about to say is more likely to get deleted because of the honest and non pc format I choose. Frankly, who gives a shit if this guy knows what "free solo" means. EDITED FOR SPACE pants to REI and offer up some condolences to this guy's family and friends and don't turn this into your "access" or "he wasn't a climber" or "he was scrambling" or "media inaccuracy" bullshit.


That was good.

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By paintrain
Jun 5, 2012
Chuck Norris can Divide by Zero
People get killed and it is sad. Condolences all around.

Access is an issue though and one that can be affected by accidents and the perception of who seems to be the causitive agents in rescues and body recoveries.

I won't disagree that some of the statements above are insensitive, but i also won't agree that access isn't at issue. My home crag was shut down because of a fatality (private land). It does become important to differentiate user groups as land managers are different at every area and their perceptions can be influenced by what user group is giving them problems.

Pt

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By Greg D
From Here
Jun 5, 2012
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
paintrain wrote:
People get killed and it is sad. Condolences all around. Access is an issue though and one that can be affected by accidents and the perception of who seems to be the causitive agents in rescues and body recoveries. I won't disagree that some of the statements above are insensitive, but i also won't agree that access isn't at issue. My home crag was shut down because of a fatality (private land). It does become important to differentiate user groups as land managers are different at every area and their perceptions can be influenced by what user group is giving them problems. Pt


The fact that you mention pg13 and tr in the same sentence in a recent post tells me you should head to REI also.

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By Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Jun 5, 2012
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Pea...
Greg D wrote:
The fact that you mention pg13 and tr in the same sentence in a recent post tells me you should head to REI also.


You must be referencing some other conversation here.

Anyway, I agree with what you said, Greg. This horse gets beaten to death almost as quickly as the victim does sometimes. Maybe we will simply just find out more information about the accident and hopefully hear from some friends of the guy and go from there. Very sorry to hear about this.

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By Allen Sanderson
From Oootah
Jun 5, 2012
Stairway To Heaven - all the way to the Pearly Gat...
Having dealt with similar situations there are many aspects. First it is always a bummer when some one dies. I personally do not feel a need to offer condolences as I did not know the victim nor anyone with ties to them.

Second, victim like all of us did something dumb. We all do dumb things. Most of the time we get away with it, sometimes we do not. When we do not the consequences are often deadly and get put down under Dawin.

Now the reporting is not very good. But the reporter was well, reporting what they were told via the sheriff's deputy. The deputy really did not describe what happened very well. Quite simply he should have said;

"The victim was hiking with friends and decided to scramble up the rocks next to the falls without any of the proper gear and consequently fell to their death"

The titles of the story would have been best had it been - "Hiker scrambling off trail dies in fall"

If folks want to have an impact on the reporting give the sheriff's office a call. And ask them to distinguish between hikers and climbers. If they have technical gear they are a climbers - it not hikers. And when hikers do not use the word climb in their statement. That would solve a huge number of the cases with poor reporting.

Now what are consequences ? There can be impacts on access. Just look at Denali. Most often though on private land. That said the public land managers along the Wasatch front are used to people doing dumb things and tend to roll with it. The same for private land - especially the Gate Buttress where there have been at least climber 4 deaths, and way more injuries in the past 15 years.

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By M. C.
Jun 5, 2012
I don't get it. What makes some of you assume automatically that it's a guy who doesn't know anything about climbing, and is just a "dumb hiker" who tried to free solo without even knowing the definition?

Are you saying college students who have friends, i.e. like the guy who died, can never free solo? Very odd assumption if so.

And, disrespectful of the dead. Poor taste in my view.

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By BurtMachlan
Jun 5, 2012
Allen Sanderson wrote:
First it is always a bummer when some one dies. I personally do not feel a need to offer condolences as I did not know the victim nor anyone with ties to them.


I agree, who exactly am I offering condolonces too???? The internet fairies? Sad someone died but sending out mental "positive vibes" is going to do nothing for him or the family. You guys can all feel better about yourselves for starting out your responses with "condolonces" though, you are all much better people now and can pat yourselves on the back.

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By BurtMachlan
Jun 5, 2012
M. C. wrote:
I don't get it. What makes some of you assume automatically that it's a guy who doesn't know anything about climbing, and is just a "dumb hiker" who tried to free solo without even knowing the definition?


Because it sounds like he was hiking and decided to scramble up some chossy cliff non vertical cliff band which he fell off of. Most climbers I know would not do that. They would either use ropes or go free solo an actual route.... Its pretty obvious, even from the poorly written article, that the guy knew nothing about rock climbing. Thats not a knock on him as there is nothing wrong with not knowing anythign about climbing, just an observation...

And please explain to me how its disrespectful of the dead to suggest they do not know anything about climbing??? Especially since it sounds like he wasn't a climber.... I wouldnt be offended if someone said I knew nothing about quantam mechaincs, its just a fact I know nothing about it.

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By Woolymammoth
Jun 5, 2012
It is very sad he died. I don't think anyone really thinks otherwise. It has been stated above, but the media should differentiate between a climber & hiker, or some young kids playing around. Just because he is 'touching rock' does not make him a climber, & by the media lumping it all together creates a certain irresponsible idea of all climbers. & if he was mimicking, say, Alex Honnold, well, that was his irresponsible choice. Not Alex's, not the Television set. His, & his alone. But i don't think that was the case. Most likely he didn't even know who Honnold was...

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By Tradoholic
Jun 5, 2012
What a bunch of white people problems. Am I supposed to cry everytime someone tumbles off a cliff? A person probably dies in the third world every second because they don't have enough to eat, or the step on a land mine, etc. How about offering them condolences? You would have to mutter the word every second or more to keep up. So, unless you directly know the person or family your condolences are strictly self serving.

YES, this mis-reporting effects us as climbers. Every non-climber I meet thinks I've got some sort of death wish. YES, a local crag was shut down because drunk teenagers liked to fall off it. You can still hike up to the top of it but you can't climb it, go figure. YES, call the newspaper and note that this person was not a climber. It worked for us locally, the press changed their tone.

Look, I'm sure he was a great guy (everyone is posthumously) but this is a minor tradegy compared to the atrocites occuring around the world and in the contect of this forum I think it's perfectly appropriate to point out that he was not a climber and not using the equipment and techniques most of us all use to prevent accidents like this.

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By paintrain
Jun 5, 2012
Chuck Norris can Divide by Zero
Debbie downer
Debbie downer


Man this thread went from depressing to really depressing.

What a bunch of white people problems - That pretty much sums up MP.

PT

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By Cultivating Mass
Jun 5, 2012
Leading on the only "fair means" rack.
Pain, I could not agree more. Nick, you're starting to sound like Burt/Dexter/Dorsey, bud. Yeeouch.

Condolences both to the family of the deceased and the internet fairies.

Condolences to my dwindling good mood after reading this dreck, as well.

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By Robbie Mackley
From Tucson, AZ
Jun 5, 2012
Me and Holden at the "Matterhorn"
M. C. wrote:
I don't get it. What makes some of you assume automatically that it's a guy who doesn't know anything about climbing, and is just a "dumb hiker" who tried to free solo without even knowing the definition? Are you saying college students who have friends, i.e. like the guy who died, can never free solo? Very odd assumption if so. And, disrespectful of the dead. Poor taste in my view.

First I would like to offer my condolences to all the friends and loved ones of this young man. It is always sad to hear of a tragedy like this.
That said, I agree that we shouldnt assume that the gentleman in question was "some dumb hiker," we also shouldnt assume this person to be a compentent climber. We do know that he was obviously climbing, and confirmed to be doing so without SAFETY GEAR (free soloing).
DISCLAIMER: Free soloing is the most dangerous dicipline of rock climbing, and as such should be reserved for only the most experianced and elite climbers. The only person who can make that call (especially concidering the route is in question) is the climber at the base of the route theyre considering.
But lets look at the possibility that he was deliberatly FSing:
1. That would mean he had atleast some experiance on rock.
2. Knew the risk he was taking
3. Knew the conciquences
4. Was comfortable with that risk
5. CHOSE to leave the ground sans pro
If these 5 points ring true then he took one of the ultimate risks in climbing, with one of the ultimate rewards, and paid the ultimate price.
If not then he just got in over his head and still paid that price. The fact of the matter was someone made a poor desition and now they are gone, leaving many others to deal with the pain. I hope that we as a "community of climbers" can learn from this loss and become a safer more supportive community for it.
Thanks to those of you who took the time to read my rant. And my heart goes out to all involved.
-Mackley

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By Robbie Mackley
From Tucson, AZ
Jun 5, 2012
Me and Holden at the "Matterhorn"
My above post was not direted only to M.C. Nor was it a retort to the reply I quoted. It was my simple attempt at diplomacy in a bummer of a thread. M.C.'s statement was just my avenue to look at the situation from both schools of thought. Anyone with no respect for this young man, or his friends & family can f**k themself. Climber or not this young man was doing exactly what got 99.99% of us climbing in the first place, loveing the out of doors.
-Mackley

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By Tradoholic
Jun 5, 2012
The world is a cruel place, I suggest you all get used to it or do something about it.

Here's a link for all the gushing hearts: amnestyusa.org/
And another: unicef.org/
And another: worldhunger.org/
And another: charitywater.org/
And another: globalwater.org/
And another: habitat.org

Anyone else got some more?

Now back to killing puppies...

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