Ultralight Camalots

Anyone have the new ultralight BD Camalots? What do you think?

My personal opinion is until they aren't Made in China anymore, I'm not going to buy into the hype. Not worth the extra $20 per cam Imo, but haven't carried or placed one yet so can't say performance wise.

ChadMartino wrote:My personal opinion is until they aren't Made in China anymore, I'm not going to buy into the hype. Not worth the extra $20 per cam Imo, but haven't carried or placed one yet so can't say performance wise.

they're not made in china.

I don't know that I'd pay more to save a few ounces but was curious if they work as well as the old Camalots.

The trigger can be pushed towards the cam lobes when in a back pack. And the wires are a smaller gauge than before. So I have concerns about kinking and fraying of the wires. I used marking tape to create a trigger stop. Other than than they seem solid but I haven't used them yet.

No 2

Loving them so far for the weight. The springs feel much weaker so maybe a bit more prone to walking since there is less resistance. Guess I'll have to keep more of an eye on things and sling where needed. FWIW I have the full set (2x) and c3 and x4 below the .4.

Or 4oz more of whiskey for the summit.

Since no one has answered this question in the "new cams" thread, I'll repost here:

I've only seen a 0.4 and a #2 in person, but I noticed that the 0.4 Ultralight's individual cam lobes are significantly narrower than the 0.4 C4 Camalot's lobes. By narrow I mean there is less surface area in contact with the rock.

However, I also compared the #2 Ultralight's lobes to a #2 C4 and found them to be the same. I assume that the #3 and #4's lobe width is the same as their C4 counterparts as well.

I haven't seen a #1, 0.75, or 0.5 yet. Does anyone have them who can comment on their lobe width as compared to equivalent sizes in the C4?

Cor wrote:Or 4oz more of whiskey for the summit.

More like 5 oz. Because alcohol is less dense than pure water.

Right??

Don't bring a chemist to a climbing gear discussion!

.6lbs seems pretty significant to me. It's not a ton of weight, but over a days worth of climbing it might shave enough.

I actually find the savings on rock gear more important than say the Petzl Ultralight screws. At least the cams should last as long as regular camalots and a rock rack can get pretty heavy. Ice racks are like 10-15 screws, and ice screws used to last 10+ years. Maybe more.

Personally, I just bring more tricams, nuts and fewer cams. Generally works for me. Lighter rack and more gear options. But, shiny, new and innovative is hard to pass up!

J. Serpico wrote:At least the cams should last as long as regular camalots and a rock rack can get pretty heavy.

BD claims their lifespan to be 5 years. If you get the standard Camalots and resling them every 10 years, they have no defined life limit.

20 kN wrote: BD claims their lifespan to be 5 years. If you get the standard Camalots and resling them every 10 years, they have no defined life limit.

https://youtu.be/3BPRygJGp04

BD rep claiming that they will last just as long as a C4, and pointing out that he has been using his C4s for 13 years without re-slinging. I agree that what you wrote is consistent with BD's written statements.

I agree, C4 should last forever if you don't kink the stem.

The above video is where I got my info from. Basically he said if you don't store them in the sun and beat the shit out of them, they should last a while.

In fact, he mentioned he was climbing on 12 year old original slings on the prototype X4 (I think, not rewatching the video, so feel free to correct me). Which he said were still safe. I'm sure this isn't officially black diamonds stance and if it wasn't a 3rd party video would probably have been pulled as they claim 5 years for sling replacement.

At 5 years, along with my disposable Petzl screws, I think climbing is going to get very expensive. I'll probably lug up some slightly heavier Friends or Dragons and call it good.

For me, it's a matter of price. Black Diamond reduced their weight 25%, but raised the price $25.

On the other hand, Metolius reduced weight by %20, and did not increase the price. Ultralight master cams are also much safer to place horizontally, which is a situation everyone has been in. Also, they make them up to #8 (which is a hair smaller than a Bd #3). And i'd prefer a steel cable over the UL Camalot's new sling stem.

Maybe someone can enlighten me as to why they would buy them starting at $90 retail vs Metolius starting at $60, or maybe that should be it's own thread?

Mike LoPresti wrote: Ultralight master cams are also much safer to place horizontally, which is a situation everyone has been in.

Can you please explain why UL Mastercams are "much safer to place horizontally"? Can you also explain what they are safer than? And I assume that by "place horizontally" you mean place in a horizontal crack

Yes, placing in a horizontal crack. When you do that, it's all about Stem Flexibility and how shallow the crack is.

I was comparing Camalots to Mastercams. I guess it doesn't matter whether you're talking about the New ultralight versions of these cams or the old ones, because the trigger system generally hasn't changed. The wires on a Camalot stick out further on the stem, therefore they're not as good in shallow horizontal cracks.

Surely you could buy BD X4's (Retail $75), which are similar to Mastercams. These cams have a single stem trigger design, where the wires don't stick out as far, and make them better for shallow horizontal cracks. Just look at a picture and you'll see.

X4's are nice but expensive. And they only make up to a .75 size.

Don't get me wrong, BD Camalots are great cams. I just prefer Mastercams because of the versatility and price.

I feel like it would be cheaper for me to loose .6 lbs then spending that much updating a rack. I actually could prob loose 10lbs. DAT SAVINGS!

Josh Allred wrote:I feel like it would be cheaper for me to loose .6 lbs then spending that much updating a rack. I actually could prob loose 10lbs. DAT SAVINGS!

Once you lose 10 pounds your janky old C4's will still weigh as much as a Lincoln Continental.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: Once you lose 10 pounds your janky old C4's will still weigh as much as a Lincoln Continental.

A half a pound? I mean yeah if you are sending some tough grades. Not sure it justifies the 20 additional dollars / cam.

My point is that I think people will get more of a benefit spending the money on losing 10 lbs then spending money to save a half a pound on updating there rack. Now if its time replace pieces that is a different story.

To each there own though. If you have the cash go for it. I am glad BD made the C4s lighter. I just wont be purchasing them anytime soon esp for the price increase. Someone mentioned above that Metolious went lighter and kept the same price. Talk about bringing value to the consumer.

I have the Ultralight Master Cams and they're great. And as mentioned already, Metolius didn't jack up the price.

For me, the big price increase for the BD Ultralights is a deal-breaker, not because I'm poor but because the Master Cams are such a better value.

Unless you're a BD loyalist, I can't see any reason the buy their new Ultralights when you have the Ultralight Master Cams as an alternative.

ETA: They might make sense for aid climbers for the weight savings and the thumb loops. Metolius dropped the thumb loop from the new design.

It seems to me that BD has two buyers in mind for their Ultralights. The hardman alpinist and/or very strong trad climber. The second would be the guy or gal who loves to have the latest and greatest gear. The same one who bought a set of X4s when they came out.