By cyrus
From Menifee, CA
Apr 1, 2012
| I am climbing the grand teton this summer with two others, the approach is a long one and we will be staying overnight, so pack weight and space are precious.
What do you think about double ropes with a party of three instead of two single ropes. Leader goes ties into both ends (will be the same leader the entire route) and is belayed with an atc guide on both ropes. The second and third are tied into one rope each and are belayed up after setting the anchor.
I know the leader will be safe with a double rope system, but how do you feel about the followers on one strand of a double rope? There will be very little slack in the system as they climb and logic tells me there should be no problem, but....
Thanks,
Cy | 
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By illusiondweller
Apr 1, 2012
| I use this exact setup often to bring 2 climbers up more or less concurrently. It allows your party of 3 to move at close to the same pace as a party of 2. Half ropes have been used in this configuration for a while now, but I believe the AMGA is now requiring guide companies to use single ropes instead of half ropes for the double rope system you describe. Your followers will be plenty safe on a half rope system. Twin ropes on the other hand should not be used in this configuration. |
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By JCM
From Golden, CO
Apr 1, 2012
| cyrus wrote: What do you think about double ropes with a party of three instead of two single ropes. Leader goes ties into both ends (will be the same leader the entire route) and is belayed with an atc guide on both ropes. The second and third are tied into one rope each and are belayed up after setting the anchor.
Totally standard practice, totally safe. An ~8.4 mm half rope is plenty to protect a following second.
I'll even admit that in the Tetons, and other places where I'm doing easy alpine ridge climbing, I kind of like climbing (as a party of 2) with just one 8.4 mm half rope for the party. Saves a lot of weight on that hike in, is easier to handle and to Kiwi coil, and is still plenty safe on a route where you really shouldn't be falling anyway.
Remember that the Tetons are definately a "speed is safety" sort of place. The biggest danger there isn't falling (since you really just don't take whips when alpine climbing- nuff said), it is the electrical storms. Skimping a bit on the safety systems is fine if it helps you to move fast and get out of there before 1 pm. This often means a skinnier rope, placing a bit less gear, building anchors with only two pieces if the stance is good, etc.
In that light, I'll also need to mention that alpine climbing as a party of 3 sucks, plain and simple.It makes switching/swinging leads difficult, it makes simul-climbing (an important Tetons tool) impractical, and it generally will slow everything down. If you can find an experienced fourth member, allowing you to split into two autonomous parties of 2, this would be a good idea.
Also: you can do the raps down the 5th class bit of the Owens Spaulding with one 60m rope, so long as it is a full 60. Just make sure to get good beta for which rap station(s) to use. |
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By Buff Johnson
Apr 1, 2012
| I use the doubles, it's fine & easier to get off the Grand.
I think that rap station is marked at 45M now -- you may see slings initially, but there are a couple of bolts to the left of them with a distance tag (but it does seem more like 40M to me).
It is possible to locate the first of two 25M stations up and little bit climber's right in the next slot area. |
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By Matt Glue
From Albany, NY
Apr 2, 2012
| Just place extra pro on traverses and you're fine. |
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By Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Apr 2, 2012
| I used this on Gambit and had an unusual benefit come into play. One of the ropes got stuck somehow in a crack as I was leading. I would have had to downclimb to fix it. But since I had two lines, I untied the stuck one and finished the pitch on the remaining one and brought up the second. That person then freed the stuck rope and I belayed up the third. |
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By Wannabe
Apr 2, 2012
| Simul-climbing in a party of three with half ropes is doable as long as the terrain is moderate. I get where you're coming from with the speed is safety thing Jon. |
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By Shralpine
From boulder, co
Apr 2, 2012
| stich that's not really an unusual benefit... its one many benefits of a half rope system! |
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By NC Rock Climber
From The Oven, AKA Phoenix
Apr 2, 2012
| Using a half rope with a party of three, with each of the followers tied into a separate strand is fine. I have done it more than once. However (and I am sure that someone will correct me if I am wrong), you are not supposed to do this with twin ropes.
I was not able to find the thread here on MP or the manufacturers link, but there is one floating around out there on this very subject. I am sure that with a little more effort that you are someone can find it. It deals with the testing for single, half and twin ropes and how each system should be used.
I hope that you have a great trip in the Tetons! |
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By Larry S
Apr 2, 2012
| Stich wrote: I used this on Gambit and had an unusual benefit come into play. One of the ropes got stuck somehow in a crack as I was leading. I would have had to downclimb to fix it. But since I had two lines, I untied the stuck one and finished the pitch on the remaining one and brought up the second. That person then freed the stuck rope and I belayed up the third.
I've had this happen too |
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By steverett
From West Hartford, CT
Apr 2, 2012
| NC Rock Climber wrote: you are not supposed to do this with twin ropes. I was not able to find the thread here on MP or the manufacturers link, but there is one floating around out there on this very subject.
illusiondweller mentioned this in his reply as well. Here is a link:
www.highinfatuation.com/blog/straight-from-the-mammoths-mout>>> |
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By Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Apr 2, 2012
| Larry S wrote: I've had this happen too
Now if the rope gets stuck while the third is climbing, I just throw the second down on them to get it unstuck. You lose one in your party, but it's worth the sacrifice. |
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By cyrus
From Menifee, CA
Apr 2, 2012
| Thanks for your help. You confirmed what I was thinking, but it good to hear smart people say it. Now, I get confused when we talk about half/twin/double ropes, but I'm talking about the 8.3mm or so dynamic 60m ropes from sterling or edelweiss. The 7mm are the twins, right? Yeah, I wouldn't feel comfortable on those.
We are heading up end of July or first of August this year. Grew up in the area, always loved the grand, really excited to stand on top this summer.
Thanks
Cy |
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By steverett
From West Hartford, CT
Apr 2, 2012
| Yeah it's confusing because half/double are completely opposite terms, but they mean the same thing for climbing ropes. |
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By bearbreeder
Apr 3, 2012
| hints ...
- practice it before you go up on a big climb
- it may be easier for each person to belay a strand with their device especially if they are new to doubles
- when the seconds get to the top ... have each one tie in and flake each strand over their tie ins ... itll keep them seperate ... each person can then belay a strand
- for traverses clip them as twins if they can be used as such to protect for both seconds |
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