By Erick Anderson
Jul 3, 2009
| Hi,
I want learn about real life results on dieting
the healthy way and keeping the fat off.
I have personally lowered my cholesterol
from 238 to 174 and lost 24 pounds in 3 months.
Thanks for having me here. | 
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By Dan Dalton
From Boulder, CO
Jul 3, 2009
| Right on! I guess it sort of depends on what you want to do. If you feel that you lean towards one style of climbing than another, you might have different diet needs to maximize performance, (i.e. a person predominately climbing ice might want to eat foods high in good fats like nut butters during the season to help maintain warmth.) I generally find the more you stick with the 60% carb 20% fat and 20% protein diet the better. Keeping rough track of calories spent v. calories consumed can help as well. Eating good foods is important too, making sure to favor natural foods. The simpler the building block the easier it is for your body to metabolize.
At any rate I wouldn't focus too much on it, just go out and have fun doing whatever it is you like to do, mountains or pebbles, it doesn't matter. |
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By Evan Simons
From Boulder CO
Jul 3, 2009
| Eat a diet super high in protein (like one gram per pound of body weight a day), lots of green veges, and plenty of minerals and omega 3s, cut out as many carbs and sugars as possible. It takes about a month or two for your body to adjust to making glucose out of protein instead of straight from carbs, but once it does you feel better, perform better, and build lots of lean muscle while practically never gaining any fat weight. Simple as that. |
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By Mike Dudley
From Tucson
Jul 9, 2009
| Evan, from reading posts in the past I have put together that you are a herbalist of some sort correct? I was curious your opinion on multi vitamins. I would really like to get all my nutrition from my food rather then vitamins, but as a college student and dirtbag climber it is sometimes hard to afford fresh veges. Recommendations? |
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By Aerili
From Reno, NV
Jul 9, 2009
| Evan Simons wrote: It takes about a month or two for your body to adjust to making glucose out of protein instead of straight from carbs, but once it does you feel better, perform better, and build lots of lean muscle while practically never gaining any fat weight. Simple as that.
It does not take the body a month or two to make ketones. Carb restriction usually results in the liver being depleted of stores within three days--after which ketones will be made.
Evan's statement is absolutely not backed up by science and contains a lot of bunk. Eating as much protein as he claims is "good" is expensive and wasteful, as your body can only convert 70% of the protein it consumes into glucose and 30% of the fat.
As for performance, what performance? Forcing your body into ketosis does not make your brain perform better (it performs better off glucose and in fact cannot completely function off ketones alone); your muscles also perform optimally off glucose. Low blood sugar is the anti-thesis to good performance. This is basic science backed up by innumerable studies over many decades.
Such high protein/fat diets do NOT spare or build muscle; conversely, your body actually starts breaking down its organ and muscle tissue to use as fuel for the brain. The body can extract the glucose present in proteins--and it will [after catabolizing them from your muscles]--in order to oxidize your high fat diet into ketones so you can keep breathing and (kinda) thinking.
Unfortunately, ketosis is also associated with stress on the liver, nausea, bad breath, and increased risk of osteoporosis and kidney stones.
Knowledge is power. Mis-leading information is not. |
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By Doug Shepherd
From Fort Collins, CO
Jul 9, 2009
| What kind of diet do you suggest Aerili? |
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By Rob Kepley
From Westminster,CO
Jul 9, 2009
| Doug Shepherd wrote: What kind of diet do you suggest Aerili? |
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By EMT
Jul 9, 2009
| Beer.....
OK, no really. Pizza too! |
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By Sam Benedict
Jul 9, 2009
| A healthy and balanced diet is quite important to reaching what ever trivial/trite goals you have in mind. Here are some tips that have worked for me:
-Dieting pills certainly work, especially when freebased.
-If you have kids or access to kids, they are most likely on Ritalin. Take this wonder drug from them and use it to attain your own personal goals. You and the youngsters will both be better off.
-Try to induce vomiting after every other meal.
-Stop drinking the bacon grease.
-Go to your local health food store and listen to some less than healthy looking customer service person go on and on about a whole bunch of bullshit for ever and ever. Just going in to a health food store kills my apatite completely.
-Watch the first rocky movie and do everything that ol’ Rocco does.
-Steroids!! Duh?!
That’s just a few and theirs plenty more where that came from.
Oh and before anyone starts nay-saying my health tips, just remind you self(s) that I climb much harder than you (all of you).
Real talk,
Sam |
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By Aerili
From Reno, NV
Jul 10, 2009
| Rob Kepley wrote: I'd like to ask the same. Also Aerili, what is your background? Sports nutrition? My diet has been horrible these days and I need some help!
My background: degree in exercise science, Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (through NSCA), and I work training athletes and regular population (and have done so for a number of years).
I am not a Registered Dietitian, so I only give basic nutrition advice and nutritional strategies.
I am not totally against creating a higher protein diet, but carbohydrates still should make up a large percentage of your diet. I don't want to give specific ratios or grams per body weight; I don't feel comfortable doing that, but I can tell you that eating one gram protein per pound body weight is just a waste of money and your kidneys will be working overtime to excrete all the nitrogen. Consuming more and more protein does not = using more.
Rob Kepley, you could always check out the sports nutrition books by Nancy Clark, R.D. as a starting point.
Lastly, someone mentioned the raw diet thing, but the problem with the raw diet long term is that you have a huge issue with getting enough essential proteins. Without eating grains in an otherwise well-rounded diet (and who eats raw grains?), it's very hard to get all parts of the amino acid chains required to give you a complete protein. |
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By Evan Simons
From Boulder CO
Jul 10, 2009
| Om my my, I love a challenge. Glad I've been too busy to waste my time on this site much lately. In fact, young lady, your body makes ketones after merely a few hours running on no carbs. I was merely saying it takes a month or two for you to actually adjust and feel GOOD eating that way. I don't have the time to argue with people who think they know everything and are better than me because of it, all I can tell you is that I am a certified (state board of higher education approved from the North American Institute of Medical Herbalism, 600+ hours of study) medical herbalist and nutritionist who was trained by Paul Bergner, a man who has been a pioneer and absolutely cutting edge researcher in this field for more than 30 years, I doubt you're even that old. Tell people whatever you want, I know the truth, backed up by my own PERSONAL experience and research. Tata for now. |
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By Evan Simons
From Boulder CO
Jul 10, 2009
| Mike Dudley wrote: Evan, from reading posts in the past I have put together that you are a herbalist of some sort correct? I was curious your opinion on multi vitamins. I would really like to get all my nutrition from my food rather then vitamins, but as a college student and dirtbag climber it is sometimes hard to afford fresh veges. Recommendations?
Veges can be expensive, so are supplements. I work for an herb and vitamin manufacturer so I take tons of supps because I get em cheep or free, but for most people I would say take a decent middle of the road multi (Rainbowlight, Nature's Plus, Nature's Life, etc), extra magnesium (like to the limit of it giving you loose stool), omega 3's, and extra vitamin D, like 10,000 iu a day (the upper safe limit is about 300,000, don't worry). Beyond that, collard greens, kale, swiss chard, spinach, lots of hearty green, they're really not that expensive. Food, gear, and rent, what else are you gonna spend money on, come on? |
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By Evan Simons
From Boulder CO
Jul 10, 2009
| Luke Wakefield wrote: Ok, so the single most important thing anyone can do for their diet is to eat more raw (uncooked) food. I have been on this diet for over a month now eating 99% raw food. I have lost 15 pounds, have way more energy, and am climbing super strong with quick recovery. I take no protein supplements and have noticed significant forearm hypertrophy. For the first week you feel extremely fatigued. I had flu like symptoms for four days as my body detoxed.
The detox suck man, it's called a "healing crisis" and always happens when you start down a better path. Raw is a great way to go a lot of the time. Raw and fermented foods retain their nutrients a lot better, I would make sure you're getting enough animal protein though, and that probably should be cooked, even if only slightly. I personally don't recommend a vegetarian or vegan diet, you can remain healthy for a number of years, but it takes it's toll after a while. It's just too hard to get enough omega 3's (flax has lots of parent omega 3, but you need the components, DHA and EPA, which unfortunately the human body only converts about 1/30th of raw omegas to), and hard to get enough protein. Don't get me wrong, you can chug three or four brown rice and yellow pea and hemp protein shakes a day and be fine, but a lot of people don't have that discipline. Eat fish once a week for me at least, will ya? |
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By Rob Kepley
From Westminster,CO
Jul 10, 2009
| Anyone have thoughts on the "caveman" diet? |
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By Paul Hunnicutt
From Boulder, CO
Jul 10, 2009
| Evan wrote: "I personally don't recommend a vegetarian or vegan diet, you can remain healthy for a number of years, but it takes it's toll after a while. "
Whatever. I've been vegetarian for 16 years now and I have weighed the same essentially since my first years of college - 150lb (I'm 5'9"). I've climbed up to 5.12, done big walls, finished triathlons, raced bikes, etc...I've never felt better and the toll has only been improved health.
While I'm not saying fish is bad for you (though it takes a huge toll on the environment) it isn't necessary. Neither is meat of any kind. Most of the world eats carbs and most of the world seems to be nice and lean. Only in America would a diet come out that tells you to eat the most expensive, wasteful top of the food chain stuff.
HOWEVER, having said all of that the human body is very adaptable and there are a lot of ways to live. Some societies live almost solely off of one type of animal or have been vegetarian for centuries. Find what works for you...listen to your body first and foremost. I have found the longer you eat healthy food the less you crave the crap.
Personally I eat a vegetarian diet of about 50% carb, 25% fat, 25% protein. However I have never had a problem with weight and love carbs...so it works well for me.
Combine whatever you do with regular exercise. What amazes me is how many people need to diet solely because they sit on their ass all day long. |
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By Rob Kepley
From Westminster,CO
Jul 10, 2009
| Paul Hunnicutt wrote: What amazes me is how many people need to diet solely because they sit on their ass all day long.
Amen brotha! Glad to know others think like me. |
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By tooTALLtim
From Boulder, CO
Jul 10, 2009
| Wow, theses are the kinds of threads I like!
I find this rings true with me
Paul Hunnicutt wrote: I have found the longer you eat healthy food the less you crave the crap.
Whenever I break down and have fast food, my body tends to expunge it as quick as possible, while letting me know it's pissed. I tend to listen :-) |
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By Gregger Man
From Broomfield, CO
Jul 11, 2009
| I've been doing the pescetarian thing since 1992. Cholesterol dropped to ~130 and stayed there. My weight hasn't budged (6'4", 165 lbs). Works for me. |
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By Luke Wakefield
From Prescott, Az
Jul 11, 2009
| Aerili wrote: Lastly, someone mentioned the raw diet thing, but the problem with the raw diet long term is that you have a huge issue with getting enough essential proteins. Without eating grains in an otherwise well-rounded diet (and who eats raw grains?), it's very hard to get all parts of the amino acid chains required to give you a complete protein.
I eat raw grains at least twice a day. Sprouted buckwheat is a fantastic protein. A very complete protein. |
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By Dan Dalton
From Boulder, CO
Jul 11, 2009
| Luke Wakefield wrote: I eat raw grains at least twice a day. Sprouted buckwheat is a fantastic protein. A very complete protein.
But nowhere near as good as protein isolates found in meats or fish. The easier the building block for your body, the easier it is to metabolize. |
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By Luke Wakefield
From Prescott, Az
Jul 11, 2009
| Dan Dalton wrote: But nowhere near as good as protein isolates found in meats or fish. The easier the building block for your body, the easier it is to metabolize.
Hmmm. This may be true for some people. Personally I find it difficult to metabolize and digest meat. |
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By Merlin
From Boulder
Jul 11, 2009
| Paul Hunnicutt wrote: Evan wrote: "I personally don't recommend a vegetarian or vegan diet, you can remain healthy for a number of years, but it takes it's toll after a while. " Whatever. I've been vegetarian for 16 years now and I have weighed the same essentially since my first years of college - 150lb (I'm 5'9").
I think it depends on the person, body, etc. I tend to be on the more muscular side. I was 175, 5'7" and low body fat. I tried the vegetarian route for a year (and not stupidly) and no matter what I tried insofar as variations, supplements, etc. I was always sick, lethargic, dropped 25 lbs, etc. It simply didn't work for me.
I think you can't say A or B when it comes to a vegetarian diet, it works for some people and not for others, people clearly evolved as omnivores so the idea that we could all be vegetarians is unrealistic from an apriori line of reasoning. Granted, our culture of excessive meat consumption is unreasonable as well but that isn't any reason to suggest that all meat/fish eating is bad for people.
I'd also be interested in any peer-reviewed publication that suggest ketogenic diets increase performance. The few I found suggested that people do, in fact go through a transitional stage and begin to adapt well to lower carb diets when the diets persist for weeks/months but none of them suggested that this performance equaled or exceeded that of moderate/higher carb diets. Peer reviewed is the key though, opinions, personal experience, appeals to authority that are not generally critiqued don't work. |
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By Aerili
From Reno, NV
Jul 13, 2009
| Evan Simons wrote: In fact, young lady, your body makes ketones after merely a few hours running on no carbs. I was merely saying it takes a month or two for you to actually adjust and feel GOOD eating that way.
Evan, actually, I am older than you by a number of years, so you can quit with the "young lady" stuff, although thanks for the compliment.
Thanks for also clarifying your meaning; your original statement did not confer that information at all.
Edited to add: of course your body starts making ketones soon after it runs out of carbs. I was saying that it can take anywhere from 1-3 days typically for the liver to be depleted of glycogen stores and thus for this to happen.
Evan Simons wrote: all I can tell you is that I am a certified (state board of higher education approved from the North American Institute of Medical Herbalism, 600+ hours of study) medical herbalist and nutritionist who was trained by Paul Bergner, a man who has been a pioneer and absolutely cutting edge researcher in this field for more than 30 years
Not to knock what your state cert means, but I don't know what is required for the North American Institute of Medical Herbalism to approve anything. This doesn't convey standards to me, other than you might have completed a certain number of hours. It doesn't convey anything to me about scientific training, formal and clinical education, or testing standards to prove a baseline of knowledge that can be backed up by empirical evidence.
Evan Simons wrote: Tell people whatever you want, I know the truth, backed up by my own PERSONAL experience and research. Tata for now.
A co-worker's wife has been training in herbalism. I think it can have its uses, and I have talked with her a few times about things regarding my own health (non-nutritional). Unfortunately, there is not a lot of research out there in this area with high quality, strict methodology. Would studies published in herbal medical journals be accepted to a peer-reviewed publication? I think usually they would not meet the standards.
On the flip side, claiming your own personal "research" proves anything is just silly. I have anecdotal experience with supplements with clients as well that seem to indicate to me certain things work (that do not have any real peer reviewed research behind them), but I never go around claiming my "personal research" is proof that these things are going to do x, y or z for clients.
The bottom line is that you did say some things that can clearly be refuted by good science.
Merlin wrote: Peer reviewed is the key though, opinions, personal experience, appeals to authority that are not generally critiqued don't work.
Quoted for emphasis! :) |
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By Mike Dudley
From Tucson
Jul 13, 2009
| Evan Simons wrote: Food, gear, and rent, what else are you gonna spend money on, come on?
Pot? |
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By Braxton Norwood
From Tucson
Jul 19, 2009
| Evan Simons wrote: vitamin D, like 10,000 iu a day (the upper safe limit is about 300,000, don't worry).
Please be careful posting things that can easily be interpreted as facts, when they are clearly not. The U.S. Dietary Reference Intake Tolerable Upper Intake Level of vitamin D for children and adults is 50 micrograms/day (2,000 IU), however, this is viewed by most as unnecessarily low. The safe tolerable limit for Vitamin D, both acute and chronic, has not been established in humans. Here one can download good review article about vitamin D tolerance/toxicity studies and draw their own conclusion.
By the way, how did you come up with the 300,000 IU number? The largest dose I can find in any controlled study is 100,000 IU. |
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By Bob Packwood
From Longtucky, CO
Jul 19, 2009
| Regarding supplements, can I get an opinion or discussion on the supplement MSM?
I'm 30 and I take a protein+amino supplement after climbing hard, plus a multivitamin daily and as many veggies as possible. I don't really watch my carbs.
But what is the deal with MSM? It has been recommended to me by several people as a daily supplement along with fish oil.
thanks,
Senator Bob |
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