Training for long approaches w/ gear, trad climbing

Hey everyone,

So during the last year or so, I've been really getting into trad climbing. I've noticed that the muscular demands are very different from sport/boulder/gym climbing, however, and lately my legs (particularly my calves) are starting to become a limiting factor. I've had times where I got to walls with a long approach and found myself getting Elvis legs on the warmup easy pitches, and on long multipitches, I start to get super destroyed by the end, even if the climbing is relatively easy compared to my max grade.

I'm used to sport climbing, where you basically climb until your forearms get pumped and training focuses on core, back and LA endurance. Gym climbing is usually good for this, as most of the routes are vertical or overhanging with lots of unrealistically positive footholds, but I rarely get a good leg workout and never anything that properly simulates a 120' trad pitch or hold-less friction slab. Obviously, the best answer would be ";;climb more 120' pitches and friction slabs), but living in Chicago makes this difficult to do on a regular basis. I was wondering what you guys recommend or if anyone has developed training programs for similar goals. My focus areas would be:

1) Hiking with significant weight (bare minimum of a rack and normal climbing gear, often rack + rope equaling some unknown weight that is definitely less than 50 lbs) and incline (I want to be able to do longer/more strenuous approaches without losing significant leg strength by the time I actually get to climb). This is mostly thighs and, to a lesser degree, calves.

2) Calf endurance/general conditioning for long pitches and multis where a significant portion of the time is spent standing on tiny edges placing gear. My goal: no more shaky legs!

Any ideas?

A 50 pound pack seems excessive. I would expect a 50 pound pack to include camping supplies as well as the climbing stuff.

As for training I would hike steep things with a medium weight pack.

Take that 50lb pack, put it on your back, hop on the treadmill on max incline and start walking!
You can also try to find a stadium around you and hike/run the stairs. Or find a tall building and walk up and down the stairs with your pack on.
Go running.

Good luck!

Oh, good catch...50 lbs was with camping supplies. Just climbing stuff is probably around 30-40 with a 3L bladder.

Im in a similar position, living in MN. Most of my goals are more alpine style (long approaches, long climbs, easier technically) or general mountaineering (rainier, denali etc). For me, the rough plan outlined below has allowed me to meet those goals:

-3x/week 40-60 minutes of cardio, one of which is interval training. I try to vary the exercises so I get a more rounded fitness. This includes biking, stair machine, running and swimming. I also alternate which exercise i do as interval training.

2x/week strength training. I do one day of weights which concentrates on as many muscle groups as possible (biceps, triceps, back, quads, calfs, forearms etc). And the other day I climb at the local gym for a few hours.

On the weekend, I try to get one long day of training based on my current goal. I was making an attempt on Rainier in early july, so my weekend training was lots of hiking with a pack, or stairs with a pack. Now that Im headed to CO for an alpine objective at the end of august, i try to get to taylors falls and lead/climb with a pack and get as many pitches as i have time for.

In all of this I try to get 1 rest day a week. I do core exercises pretty much every day and stretch a lot too. Doing all of this with a baby is difficult but thats why I dont get to the gym 2 times a week and I typically do most of my workouts on my lunch break (aside from the weekends and 1 day of gym climbing).

This plan has worked well for me and my goals. I dont typically try to climb hard grades, but am fine leading longer pitches of 5.8-9 like devils tower and some easier stuff in the bugaboos. I also can jump on a snow climb and be fine with my heavy pack. So yeah, if it this sounds interesting and beneficial, just tailor it to your goals.

Echo the comments above and remember, Specificity is king. you get better at hiking with a pack by hiking with a pack. Stairs, steep hill, whatever you can find. Other aerobic activity is a great idea but in my experience I feel best when I've put in more time with a pack on as the demands are different than merely running, swimming, etc.

Remember too that there are many ways to trim pack weight for those alpine climbs . Many alpine rock routes have water enroute to the climb thus there's no need to carry a full 3l bladder when you can carry 1l and fill up as needed.

Oh, and have fun!

Cool, thanks for the reply. I've heard some concerns about weight training, as you often add bulk and muscle mass in areas not needed as much for climbing (quads, chest, etc), making you heavier without benefiting your grip strength. Do you mostly do lower weight/high rep conditioning?

Hypertrophy is minimized when lifting heavy I.e high weights and low reps (3-5). I lift in addition to other training (not as much for climbing performance as to maintain balance and stave off old injuries) and don't see discernible bulk added when I am lifting heavy. Many threads on this topic. Check out Steve bechtel's book on strength training and his blog.

Sounds like you don't use much of your legs when you climb in the gym. Befriend a girl or somebody who climbs like a girl (usually a middle-aged man rocking Mythos, but crushing your projects in the gym), watch them climb, learn their technique.

Mike Flanagan wrote:Echo the comments above and remember, Specificity is king. you get better at hiking with a pack by hiking with a pack. Stairs, steep hill, whatever you can find. Other aerobic activity is a great idea but in my experience I feel best when I've put in more time with a pack on as the demands are different than merely running, swimming, etc. Remember too that there are many ways to trim pack weight for those alpine climbs . Many alpine rock routes have water enroute to the climb thus there's no need to carry a full 3l bladder when you can carry 1l and fill up as needed. Oh, and have fun!

I would disagree with the comments about less benefit from running swimming etc. If your main weakness is getting "elvis leg" then running will work your calf muscles amazingly. also, varying your training keeps your body from falling into a lull and just getting used to your work out. on top of that, if you are going to train year round, many times a week, there is little chance you will maintain motivation if you are using JUST pack training as your only form (aside from actual climbing). like i said, i get the weighted pack training stairs in every week but even when I was doing long backpacking trips multiple times every month, i didnt feel nearly as good as do now, with the training plan i outline above.

Ted, you may also try getting on some slabby sport routes or TRs if you have any nearby. Those work the calves pretty heavily.

I am. :)

Sure Jake, I we're on the same page hence my comment that "; other aerobic activity is great"; (I do it too) but that I feel best when I shift my overall ratio to "more time with a pack on". Nowhere did I state that there's no benefit from other cardio or that I don't do other things too. I generally vary how much and what aerobic activity I do as a function of what/when I'm climbing in part for some of the reasons you stated re: burnout.

. In my personal experience, shifting that ratio to more pack time vice other forms has made me feel better in the mtns. YMMV. Good feedback from all, you should be ready to rock Ted.

Buy the book, Training for the new alpinism. Lots of good cardio ideas for alpine climbing in there

Haha, for sure...now to actually find the motivation to go out and do it...

Here's some: whitneyzone.com/wc_notes.htm

:)

I hit the gym 3-4x per week (in addition to climbing and cycling) and spend a lot of time on the stair master, which has helped me a lot on those long approaches! I'm surprised to hear you are hiking with 50lbs though, even with camping gear. Start finding ways to lighten your pack - a good start would be to bring purification tablets or a water filter to cut down on how much water you need to carry.

Personally, looking like Arnold would be bad, but muscle is protective & insulating, and quad muscle in particular is helpful for getting up the durn hill even if it doesn't help you stick to the wall. Hypertrophy doesn't seem like a bogeyman that deserves much worrying, for the ordinary climber. Nobody turns into Arnold accidentally.

Training aside, the elvis leg issue is mostly a matter of mental control, finding rest stances (rests for your legs, that is), and not over engaging your calves when climbing. Leg fitness is rarely the cause of elvis leg issues.

Still, the leg fitness is pretty important if you are slogging into backcountry areas with a heavy overnight pack. For this kind of general cardio/leg base fitness, my point of view is that finding a regular practical program you can stick to and get in adequate volume is way more valuable than getting really tweaked about perfect specificity. Sure, it would be great to be able to go on a long hike in the mountains 4 days per week, but the OP lives in Chicago and probably has a full time job eating up his time. Biking, running-- whatever you enjoy and is convenient enough to do several times per week. Just get in the volume.

A greater specificity and more carefully designed leg training becomes more important if you are aiming for elite-level alpine performance (i.e. "Training for the New Alpinism"). But that level of performance and training is not needed here. OP just needs to have a big enough base to not get wiped out by the approach. For that, just do what you can.

I'll also note that back when I was really into road biking, it made me a machine at hiking uphill.

Yeah that's insane heavy - my single rack (9 cams, 2 sets of nuts, 12 alpines, long slings, cordelette, extra lockers, etc) is 9 lbs, rope (60x9.8) is a little under 9lbs, 3L of water is 6.6lb, personal stuff is 2lbs, clothing (rain shell, puffy or fleece, wind shell, hat, gloves) is 2lbs. All together, you are under 30lbs assuming you carry the rope and rack because your partner is a deadbeat.

Share the load or make friends with a sherpa.

Do not over do the training..... I knew somebody who can't hike at all anymore because he over trained and destroyed his knees.....

He was humping up and down the stairs in the 12 story building where he works, 5x day with 80 lbs.

Ted I would do stairmaster with a pack,+ rope and gear, for like 60 min at a very moderate pace 3x /week.

after a while you get stronger.

Elvis leg is because of nerves not really a function of fitness.

good luck with it.