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By Rob Warden, Space Lizard
From Springdale Ut
Jan 4, 2013
blah
could you elaborate on the lower holding power of aliens? this is the first I am hearing about it and it peaks my curiosity. additionally whats the math for Flared cracks with aliens. my anecdotal evidence is the rock will fail long before the alien pulls out of just about any placement... if the braze holds that is.

thanks in advance

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By patto
Jan 4, 2013
Rob Warden, Space Lizard wrote:
my anecdotal evidence is the rock will fail long before the alien pulls out of just about any placement... if the braze holds that is. thanks in advance

A good cam, in a good placement, in good rock should never pull out before mechanical failure of the cam above the rated strength. Though if you climb on poor rock then rock failure may limit the placements.

If the rock is hard and smooth though then cams with lower holding power may slide out whereas those with higher holding power will not.

Rob Warden, Space Lizard wrote:
could you elaborate on the lower holding power of aliens? this is the first I am hearing about it and it peaks my curiosity. additionally whats the math for Flared cracks with aliens.


There is plenty of good information on how cams operate. Familiarising yourself with this is a good start.
eb.mit.edu/custer/www/rocking/...
indiana.edu/~iubphys/undergrad...

Simply put a range vs holding power in parallel cracks is a trade off that is dependent on the cam angle chosen. Higher cam angles mean more range but less 'holding power'. Metolius used a cam angle of 13.25, WC,DMM have a cam angle of 13.75, BD of 15, Aliens use 16.

However flared cracks change things as they effectively reduce the cam angle. For this reasons Aliens can have an advantage in flares. Aliens also have softer metal which likely improves things in course rocks, however this is somewhat contentious. These two reasons go a long way in explaining why aliens perform so well on certain rock. Certainly I wouldn't touch aliens for the rock I climb because the rock is too hard and smooth.

The mathematics of totems is FAR more complex. Their design has managed to achieve the range and flared crack performance of a high cam angle (Their camming angle is ~20 degrees) while maintaining a very high holding power (~13 degrees).

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By Chris Vinson
Jan 4, 2013
I just love this video, totem cams might very well be the most innovative cams available on the market today.






Totem cams!
Totem cams!

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By Stone Nude
Jan 4, 2013
When dumb people have disposable income, hilarity ...
That's one of my favorite videos I've found on here. Shows where things are headed, for some of us.

Hey CTech, since you're checking out this thread, (saves me an email)-

Does Climbtech own/operate rapbolting.com? Was reccommended it for some hardware, looks like it's a storefront for y'all. Btw, I actually laughed about the name. Though, of course, you are all damned to HayDeez...

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By Allen Corneau
From Houston, TX
Jan 5, 2013
Smarty Ports/Shants wrote:
Does Climbtech own/operate rapbolting.com?



Don't think so...

rapbolting.com is in Silt, CO; ClimbTech is in Austin, TX.

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By patto
Jan 5, 2013
Great video.

Though I do find it odd that he states that the 2 nuts are the only safe gear up to that point! Some of those cams he placed, particularly the small blue totem are totally bomber! In fact they FAR better than the nuts. Sure those nuts aren't going to come out unless the rock breaks, but breaking that rock in that position is entirely possible! (It seems that the constriction is just at the face) And lets not forget the dodgy thread which is probably the WEAKEST placement in the climb!

I guess some people no matter how hard they climb, still don't quite trust cams. In fact now that I look at it some longer slings might help too!

That said maybe I'm just being pick cause I'm jealous! If I climbed as well as him I wouldn't need protection on the stuff I climb!

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By Brandon Gottung
From Moab, UT
Jan 15, 2013
В Екатер...
As if any more praise need be said, I climbed on Totems a bunch in LiMing China and loved them. Rumor is that Kailash bought out Totem, so there were a couple racks of Totems floating around (as well as some of those X4s which are nice from .1-.4, .5 and .75 are floppy like big mastercams). I had no issues plugging Totems in on pumpy finger cracks, regardless of their hyper-flexibility. As for there bulk, it's a non issue if climbing with doubles or less. I'd grab a couple, but at this point, I really don't need more cams. The technology behind these cams is amazing and reason enough to warrant purchase.

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By Khoi
From Vancouver, BC
Jan 15, 2013
Brandon Gottung wrote:
As if any more praise need be said, I climbed on Totems a bunch in LiMing China and loved them. Rumor is that Kailash bought out Totem, so there were a couple racks of Totems floating around (as well as some of those X4s which are nice from .1-.4, .5 and .75 are floppy like big mastercams). I had no issues plugging Totems in on pumpy finger cracks, regardless of their hyper-flexibility. As for there bulk, it's a non issue if climbing with doubles or less. I'd grab a couple, but at this point, I ready don't need more cams. The technology behind these cams is amazing and reason enough to warrant purchase.


Kailash who????

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By Brandon Gottung
From Moab, UT
Jan 15, 2013
В Екатер...
I guess its Kailas, without the h.

kailas.com.cn/en/default.html

They make ice axes, biners and draws that are all mirrored on other companies' designs. Their cams don't inspire the most confidence, at least not the number 5 when climbing well past it on insecure offwidths.

I don't know the truth behind the rumor but various folks mentioned it and the totems had the Kailas sun logo on 'em.

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By Plaidman
From Portland, Oregon
Jan 15, 2013
Looking Good at top of Quandary Peak after leading...
Hey someone asked if Totem was coming out with smaller sizes. The answer is yes. One size smaller in the Totem which will be smaller than the blue 0.65. Which is about .3 Camalot and green Alien size.

They are also doing a blue Basic Cam and a Blue/Green offset which they call a Hybrid.

Sometime in 2013. No solid release date yet.

Plaid

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By Superclimber
Jan 15, 2013
Plaidman wrote:
They are also doing a blue Basic Cam and a Blue/Green offset which they call a Hybrid. Sometime in 2013. No solid release date yet. Plaid

Really!? Yay!!!

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By GhaMby
From Heaven
Jan 18, 2013
I purchased the Yellow/Green Hybrid Basic this last weekend and recieved it in the mail last night (thursday). I'm really impressed with the look and feel of it. Comparing it to my Metolius offsets it is between the Blue/yellow and yellow/orange. It is a couple inches longer than my metolius cams, and has a very nice-even feel. The head-width is very close to Metolius, but the cam-lobes are a few milimeters wider which means more surface area. I would like to get a few more, and a few of the Fixe aliens for a true comparison, but it may be a while till I can afford that.

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By rgold
From Poughkeepsie, NY
Jan 18, 2013
The traverse out to the Yellow Ridge on the Dogsti...
Put down Andy Kirkpatrick as another convert:

andy-kirkpatrick.com/blog/view...

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By Mark Hudon
Jan 23, 2013
On the North America Wall in 1977.
They were the go-to cam for Max Jones and I on Lost in America and then again with Cheyne Lempe and I on Native Son this last fall.

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By Holyshootdude
Sep 11, 2013
I love the totems.. Bought a set half price.. Bran new at the sport recycler in boulder.. So far a month into it .. Used them in eldo, lumpy.. Tricky placement places... Revolutionary... And used them on lurky fear... Fell on a red one and the rock blew ..and the back lobes held .. Only small thing ... Being so flexible .. And usually I place the in the holy shoot moment .. They can be hard to remove... I'm already lookin to get another set 1/2 price of course .. Another thing.. The metal seems soft .. Maybe there design for limestone?

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By Holyshootdude
Sep 11, 2013
I love the totems.. Bought a set half price.. Bran new at the sport recycler in boulder.. So far a month into it .. Used them in eldo, lumpy.. Tricky placement places... Revolutionary... And used them on lurky fear... Fell on a red one and the rock blew ..and the back lobes held .. Only small thing ... Being so flexible .. And usually I place the in the holy shoot moment .. They can be hard to remove... I'm already lookin to get another set 1/2 price of course .. Another thing.. The metal seems soft .. Maybe there design for limestone?

FLAG
 
By Holyshootdude
Sep 11, 2013
I love the totems.. Bought a set half price.. Bran new at the sport recycler in boulder.. So far a month into it .. Used them in eldo, lumpy.. Tricky placement places... Revolutionary... And used them on lurky fear... Fell on a red one and the rock blew ..and the back lobes held .. Only small thing ... Being so flexible .. And usually I place the in the holy shoot moment .. They can be hard to remove... I'm already lookin to get another set 1/2 price of course .. Another thing.. The metal seems soft .. Maybe there design for limestone?

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By TacoDelRio
From All up in yo bidniss.
Sep 11, 2013
We don't kick it with bustas in khaki g-strangs.
Parker lent me a few to try out. I will be getting a tattoo of one on my face soon. They're good.

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By mapeze
Sep 13, 2013
About Totem ownership rumor:
Totem manufactures in Basque Country cams under his brand (Totem) and also for another brands, all brands with the same production line and quality system.

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By Schalk
Sep 13, 2013
So are these cams manufactured for Kailas by Totem, or are they ripping off the design? Except for the logo they look identical to Totems.

And for what it is worth, Totem cams have replaced the smaller C4s on my rack. They just seem to work everywhere.

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By Chris Vinson
Sep 13, 2013
For Kailas, made by Totem. They're awesome.

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By Gunkiemike
Sep 13, 2013
Schalk wrote:
So are these cams manufactured for Kailas by Totem, or are they ripping off the design?


There's also a good looking Alien clone on that Kailas website.

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By reboot
From Westminster, CO
Sep 18, 2013
Chris Vinson wrote:
For Kailas, made by Totem. They're awesome.

That's technically correct. But IFAIK, Kailas has bought out Totem, Edelrid & a couple other companies. Totem cams are still manufactured in Spain. It's possible they may all get rebranded (I'm holding a set of Kailas brand Totem basics) once Kailas gets some brand recognition in the state side.

Edited to add, I played with some Totem cams & realized my worries about instability of narrow head is mostly unfound. They still are very complex & probably an overkill in places like the creek. Otherwise, I think they are superior to the BD X4s in the overlapping sizes.

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By Khoi
From Vancouver, BC
Sep 19, 2013
reboot wrote:
That's technically correct. But IFAIK, Kailas has bought out Totem, Edelrid & a couple other companies. Totem cams are still manufactured in Spain. It's possible they may all get rebranded (I'm holding a set of Kailas brand Totem basics) once Kailas gets some brand recognition in the state side. Edited to add, I played with some Totem cams & realized my worries about instability of narrow head is mostly unfound. They still are very complex & probably an overkill in places like the creek. Otherwise, I think they are superior to the BD X4s in the overlapping sizes.


Source?

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By mapeze
Sep 19, 2013
The ownership of Totem remains the same as at the beginning. The production... improving and at same place. We will move our factory in next weeks to another one in same city.
By the way, Totem MT is a cooperative company. That means the owners must be at same time workers. In our case is an special kind of cooperative. We have a venture capital investor form the Basque government. On 2015 will be entirely of workers again.

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